PARLIAMENT. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Evening Post, Volume LXXVI, Issue 76, 26 September 1908, Page 9

PARLIAMENT. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

YESTERDAY'S PROCEEDINGS. After The Post ,went to press yesterday, the Hon. T. K. Macdonald's motion dealing with the necessity for calling competitive designs for all public buildings estimated to cost £3000 and over, was further' debated The Hon. J. B. Callan thought the motion went too far. He remembered when he was in Melbourne some years ago, a post office was to be erected, and competitive designs were invited, and an architect outside the department was successful. Ths Hon. Mr. Macdonald, however, was too sweeping when hp suggested that competitive designs should be called for all buildings costing over £3000. The Hon. J. Anstey agreed with the last speaker-. Like Mr. Callan, he unhesitatingly approved of competitive designs being invited for the new Parliament Buildings. He approved of -Mr. Macdonald's strictures on the architecture of the public buildings. The Hon. J. Barr did not think the mover of the motion was fair to the Government architect. He (the speaker) has seen many of his plans, and they would be a credit to any country. On the other hand, much of the work of the architects of the Dominion was very cheap,, but this was duf> to the ideas of tho people for whom the structures happened to be erected. Competitive designs were all very well in their way, but the idea meant money and much money. He moved as an amendment, "That the motion be considered this day six months." The Hon. J. T. Paul seconded the amendment. - The Attorney-General said it was a great pity that the mover of the motion had usect the language he had regarding the worK of the Government architect. Mr. Jones : It was poetic license • Dr. Findlay : Well," poetic license is not to be encouraged in this respect. The plan criticised by Mr. Macdonald was only a rough sketch to show what floor space for a Governor's residence could be got for £25,000. The architect was called upon to do this within a few hours. The strictures on Mr. Campbell were altogether undeserved. That gen.tleman was doing excellent work. (Hear, hear.) In the past the Government had called for and used competitive designs, and it would do so Jagain in proper cases. It was & matter which had to be left to the discretion of the Government. He approved of Mr. Barr's amendment, and thanked him for the good word he had spoken in Mr. Campbell's behalf. Mr. Macdonald explained that he had no intention of casting any reflection oil tho Government architect. After some further discussion, Mr. Barr having refused to withdraw his amendment, it was defeated. Mr. Macdonald then withdrew liis motion. FIRST READINGS. The following Bills, introduced by the Attorney-General, were read a first time : — Auckland University College Land Bill, Land Drainage Amendment Bill, Palmerston North Dairy School Reserve Bill. Harbours Amendment Bill, Gore Public Library Vesting Bill, Defence Amendment Bill, Hamilton Domains Bill, and the Heavy Traffic Bill. BILLS PASSED. The Impounding Amendment Bill and the Fire Brigades Amendment Bill were put through their final stages. PUBLIC BODIES LEASING POWERS. The Public Bodies Leases Bill was committed. All the clauses up to 4 wore passed without amendment. it clause 5 (powers of leasing authority to grant leases), Mr. Anstey said that the authorities should bo obliged to do certain things — not "may," as the Bill provided. He referred to the maladministration of lands by local authorities on the lines of his speech a couple of days ago. The Attorney-General said that enquiries would be made into the statements made by Mr. Anstey, and if the facts warranted it, legislation could be brought, down next session. * At clause 8 (leases to be sold by public auction), a good deal of discussion took place. A good deal of opposition was offered to the proposal that tendering should be allowed. Eventually the Attorney-General notified that he would have the clause recommitted to introduce some now provisions. He suggested that the remaining clauses of ±ac Bill could be dealt with. * This course was agreed to. Clause 12 was > disapproved of by Mr. Anstey. He said it contained two bad principles. The first was that giving the leasing authority power to reduce rent. Such a provision was a direct incentive to too high tendering. The second provided that where a lease ex pired, it had to be put up to competition. This was wrong. > . The Hon W. W. M'Cardle said there was need for authority to reduce rent, as, for instance, in tne case of a big drop in the prices of agricultural products. The clause was agreed to without alteration, and the Bill was reported. IMPREST SUPPLY. The Imprest Supply Bill was put .through all its stages without amendment. RECTIFYING ERRORS. The Auckland University College Land Bill (to validate a mistake in a previous Act) was read a second time, committed, and passed The Land Drainage Amendment Bill (giving new boards authority to raise money in anticipation of current revenue and validating a special order of the Taieri Drainage. Board) was put through all its stages and passed. The Council adjourned at 9.30 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. The House continued its sifting after The Post went to press yesterday afternoon.. IMPREST SUPPLY. An Imprest Supply Bill was brought down by Governor's Message, and led to considerable debate. Mr. Gray spoke of the electrification of the Lyttelton-Chi istchurch railway, and remarked that when he last referred to the subject the Minister for Railways treated his remarks with "levity which was painful to observe." Mr. Gray went on to urge at length that the proposed electrification was quite practicable, and should be carried out, and he contended that generally the railways are being forced towards electricity. [At one stage of the debate there were exactly seventeen members present, in 1 eluding two Ministers. Apparently no one was listening, except the Hansard reporters.] THE PRICE OF MONEY. Mr. Hogg followed Mr. Gray, and spoke of the way in which settlers suffer from want of capital, which impedes their operations to a serious extent. The reason was that' there was too little money in circulation ; the money-lenders who had cornered the wealth of the .country had made a merciless use of their opportunity, and many settlers were, unable to go on with their operations. Tho whole area ol employment was involved, and the result was general distress in certain directions. The country was suffering, while many of our institutions had wealth stored in abundance.. <i'Wa ',uave a clas,s of people in

this country," said Mr. Hogg, "who are cornering the wealth of, the country, and producing distress whefle there is no occasion for it, for the nefarious purpose of raising the price of money, and raising] the price of interest, and it is the duty of the Government to assist those settlers." The Government told appli,can^s ,f or loans that they- could not get the money they applied for. , Capital was being locked up in a way that it should not be, and he appealed to the' Government Xto corns to the< assistance of the settlers. The Government should manufacture enough to keep sufficient currency in circulation. "No matter what security you offer, it is almost impossible to 'obtain advances from the banks," said Mr. Major, who urged that that state of things bore very heavily on the producer. GRAZING RUNS. Mr. Herfies had a good deal to say about grazing runs. His point was that , men who took up those runs did a great deal of valuable pioneer work, and that at the expiration of the original lease they should be entitled to the conversion %>f the holding to lease 'a perpetuity. Also, there was an impression abroad that some lessees were favoured ,and others were treated with all the rigour of the law. Mr. Remington said that >'n his electorate there were settlers who had spent long years of hardship in improving their leases. They had put all the capital they possessed into the pro,per»y, and at the end of twenty-one-yoars they went out practically ruined. Mr. Massey, in referring to 'the samo subjects, said that he thought very serious injustice had been done when the' law was .amended regarding the tenure of grazing runs. He had had very considerable correspondence from Gisborne people, and while he agreed that if there was need for cutting up grazing runs for settlement purposes such .action should be taken, it seemed to him that the , Gisborno cases called for some explanation. In one instance a run was occupied by a prominent Government supporter named Hall, and ,his lease was 1 renewed, while the leases of the other occupiers were not renewed. It was significant that the latter were not supporters of the Gpvernment. The board, in Hall's case, had' recommended the rerfewal of the lease. > -~ Hon. W. i Hall- Jones : You admit that the renewal of Hall's lease was recomI mended by the board? Mr. Massey : Yen. Ido . not deny that \n Eall's case there was a recommendation that the lease should be renewed, nor do I deny that" in Blacks case the renewals were refused. The two cases are parallel, but one man is a supporter of • the Government, and the other is not. There is no doubt that the administration of the Lands Department is far from satisfactory, and I think a full enquiry into the ■ matter should bs made to sue whether an injustice has been done. Mi-. Hall : You are speaking too warmMr. Massey : I am speaking warmly because I feel that there is occasion for it. I agree with what the member for Bay of Plenty has said, but I think he treated the matter too gently. Mr. ' Ngata : He knew more about it than you do. Tho Hon. R. M'Nab, in reply, said that upon the exhaustion of grazing run leases, the ordinary' course was to consider whether the runs were suitable for closer settlement In the Gisborne cases Hall's run was found not to be suitable, and the lease was renewed, while in Black's case -both runs fiere found to be suitable for settlement, and the reneiva&Twere refused. Sir Joseph Ward said that the board's recommendation in Hall's case was that the land was not fit for close settlement, wh^le in the case of Black, the | land was found to be fit for settlement. The Leader of the Opposition had per- j sistcd in saying that Hall's property was fit foi settlement, and Black's was not. Mr. Massey had also raised the question of political feelfng.- .Personally he did not know what Hall's political feelings were, nor • did he know those of Black, but ne thought it was a "black" business, and he considered the Leader of the Opposition should accept the Minister for Lands' statement of what the exact position was. Turning to the question of mai 1 services, Mr. Massey wanted to know whether, upon the renewal of the mail service at the beginning of next year, they would have an improved time-table with Australia. He was not much in favour ot the present Home route, and thought j it would be an improvement if there rt-as a change, and a route adopted by ] Way of Mexico. Touching upon the electrification of \ the Christchurch-Lyttelton railway, Sir Joseph Ward said that there were in New Zealand endless places which would be glad to have seven miles of railway through a tunnel rather than no railway at all. He could only say that before the Government considered the electrification of that line they must first provide railways in those places where they had no lines at all. (Hear, hear.) The Bill passed through all its stages without amendment. IMPOUNDING BILL. The amendmunts made by the Legislative Council m the Impounding Act Amendment Bill wer~ agreed to. FIRE BRIGADES BILL. The Fire Brigades Amendment Bill was received from the Legislative Council, and read a first time. NEW BILLS. The Auckland University College Land Bill and the Land Draniage Amendment Bill were, sent up from the Council, and put through their initial stages. EDUCATION BILL. Just before 12 o'clock the Education Act Amendment Bill was.' brought for ward foi further consideration in committee. At its last appearance trouble arose through 'an amendment, proposed by Mr. Wilford, .having been, carried in favour of uniformity of schfool books throughout the schools of the Dominion. When that was carried the Minister moved to report progress, and that motion was agreed to. Up to that time the new clause providing for uniformity of school books had been "read a second time" only. The Minister now said that he knew a good many members had something else in their mind. There was only one possible argument in favour of it — the cost that would be saved, to the parents I — but that saving wouJd be very long deferred, and the amendment would be so disastrous to the system as to put the saving to the parents entirely in the shade. Hfe reeogniatjd thajb they had to do something to minimise the cost j incurred, and that would be done, but ne hoped that the House would not further insist on the amendment. Mr. Massey said the way out of the [ difficulty/ was to provide that the new provision should not come iflto operation for a year or two. Mr. Wilford : "That is tho idea. It could be brought into force at the end of the next 'two years/ He went on to say that before he moved his amendment he gave full notice ,of it to the Minister in charge of the Bill. As to the motion itself, he had made enquiries and found that the cost of bringing about uniformity would be very small indeed. The expense of the. present system all fell on the parent ; it was an unnecessary expense. A long discussion ensued as to the desirability of the policy of uniform school books, and as to the tactics of tho Minister in resisting the voice of [ the House on tho subject..

Eventually the clause providing for uniformity of school books was lost by 33_to 19. Amendments proposed by the Minister in the schedule were agreed to. The Bill was then reported wiLh amendments, which were set down for consideration next sitting day. The House rose at 1.3 a.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Monday.