THE LICENSING BILL

Evening Post, Volume LXVIII, Issue 61, 9 September 1904, Page 2

THE LICENSING BILL

THE PREMIER IN DEFENCE. PROHIBITION SUGGESTIONS. Shortly beforo tho supper ndjournmont last night tho much-dismissed Licensing Bill caino boforo tho Houso, in tho presence of full galleries. In moving tho socontl reading, tho Promcr suid ho did so with nn oiirnost tlcsiro to improvo tho oxisting law's affocling tho control and snlo of alcoholic liquors. That thoro was a need for amendment in tho oxisting law would be subscribed to by 95 por cent, of- tho mombers of tho Houso, and by n vast majority of tho pooplo of tho colony. To allow matters to go on as at prosont would bo almost criminal, mid ho hoped, th'eroforo, that members would approach tho mensuro in tho spirit ho had indicatod. There wero persons, who, from personal and politicnl motives, wished to Imyov no legislation., and who would^-do their best to prevent tho Bill going on tho Statuto Book. Mombors knew ns woil as ho did that wl]at ,ho was saying was correct. It did not matter what proposals wero mado they would provo unsatisfactory to tlieso peoplo, bocauso they wished to havo a -state of pcrpetnal turmoil, Timo after timo, when reasonable proposals had boon mado. and had ausumed concroto form and been placed in tho form of Bills', thoy had been onposod. Whon thoro was any likelihood of any of thoso proposals being placed on the Statute Book thoro had been objections, and momborß who supported them or would havo supported them woro troated in a mannor which was not a credit to thoso .who desired a state of turmoil. Amendments to this Bill had boen absolutely prepared by tho Now Zealand Allianco, and tho moment tho Bill was brought down ho found some of these gontlemen raising objections. ' To plcaso ovorybody was impossible, and to try and plcaso tho oxtrbmo membors of tho No-hcenso party was simply wasted energy. Thoy said thoy desivcd nothing savo legislation In regard to the rogulation of local elections. Thon thoro wero the demands of tho browors, which it was impossible to concedo. Ho would not undertake to grunt what they demanded. As betwoou thoso two oxtromo' parties ho had propared a Bill which would provo to bo that which was required and was asked for, and which would bo of benefit to tho colony. Tho Bill did not deservo all that had "boon said of it. There might bo clause* that members did not' fruly understand, but ho hoped to demonstrato to tho Houso that the Bill was not an attempt to pass legislation that was misleading or wot in Iho interests of tho colony. That no-liconso body in tho Houso— no mattoi how thoy attempted to disguiso tho factn-was aiming at absolute prohibition, and ho could not understand why thoy. mado any attempt to keep back tho fact. If mon conscientiously believed (hat it' was ovil lp "touch, taste, or handle,*^ thoro was no reason why they should dony what -they woro aiming at. They aimed in this case to do away with tho importotiou and tho manufftc.tu.ro of alcoholic liquors, Thore was no dbubt in 1119 mind that underlying tho movemont was absoluto prohibition.' What, however, did tho majority want? Tho majority thought that it wa» sufficient to place tho sale of nquoi under propor control. Ho looked to the. great bpdy of mode , rates. After tho noliconae supporters had asked for tho, Bill, to say that it was no good and that it should bo sot aside did not givo him, tho, country, qr tho Houso confidence, it) that party. Tho x Bill in no way infringed , or took away iho rights which tho pooplo at present enjoyed. Tho Bill proposed to extend thoso prjvilpgos and rights in soveral directions.. /V' 10 V' om » or tHftn procoeded to deal with tho elimination of tho reduction issue. Tho reduction vote, ho declared, was simply a duplication of the no-license vote, and tho ox--cission of tho middle issue was thcroforo no infringement of the rights of tho people. At the poll in 1896 t he _ votes cast for continuanco numbered 139,581), while thoso for reduction and no-liconso wero 94.665 and 98,312 rospectiyoly— a difference of only 3747. In 1809 tho contjnnanco veto was 142,443, that for roduction being 110,751, »nd far n< {- |lc «SSo 118,000~a difference of 7249. In 1902 there wero 132,270 votes cast for reduction and 151,654 for no-ltconso— a difference of 19,284. These figures showed that thoro bnd been a falhiig-off in tho reduction voto relative to tho no-hcoiue vote, and thoy also showed that the two votra woro merely duplications. 1» 1902 thon, woro 318,650 voles* cast .and those for reduction numbered 132,240, so that there woro 186,619 pooplo who did not voto for reduction. Continuing his, speech after U)<* supper adjournment; tho Premier qaotod an to-. torrlew trttfa Mr.; Taylpr, in which he expronwd himself as not opposed to tuo elimination of the reduction vote, and Mr.,.B«tdon remarked that tho swggesUon for; the abolition of that issue came to "him from the Tempevanco Parjy. Mr. Taylor :-Itr came to you from your friends, < ' . . , The Premier : They am roy fneiuls. Mr. Tayjor: Thoy would be glad' to sec the back of you. You. cost £2500 a, year. The Premier quoted other Temperance supporters in favour of the Bill, which tfwy said could be made a workable measure, .while tho Rev. E. Walker, a prominent member of tho 'Allliance, hud congratulated . him. on the Bill. In a Bill introduced b> Mr, M'Nnb in 1895, the reduction issuo was eliminated, ana he had never heard it contradicted ' that the Prohibition Party did' not approve of that measure, while subsequent meetings of that party had expressed approval of it in definite, terms. It was not fair tp attack him. for bringing forward proposals which ho -honestly believed wero npproved by those he had referred to. In 1899, again, Mr. Taylor brought in a Bill in wliioh he made certain proposals as to national option, one being the sale by a Government officer of liquor under certain conditions. Tho same provision would be equally in place in regard to local option, and the suggestion came from the Temperance- Party. Mr, Taylor: Rubbish. Tho Premier wont on to say that ho had never forgiven the Legislative COllll- 1 oil for not passing his Bill containing provisions for national option. He also quoted Mr. M%ib's Bill to show 1 that his (Mr. M'Nub'a) proposals in regard to the effect of no-license were on tho same lines as thoso in the present Bill, and wero agreed to by Prohibition conventions. Ho urged that thoro was no means at present of preventing grog going into prohibition districts, but if his proposals wore agreed to sly-grog selling in no-license districts M-ould bo prevontcd. Turning to tho Bill, the Premier gave a resume of its provisions (which have already been published). Regarding clause 9, ho urgea that the proposal of last year was absolutely sound, but ho admitted, the force of the contention that suoh nn important change should be submitted to the people, and ho was always willing to incroasc the powers of the people. (Ironical oheers.) If he had again f»n\ in clauso 9 of last year htt would iavo been oharged with having done so in the interests of tho trade, but his chief anxiety was to give tho pooplo a voice in tho questiou. He took it that a person voting " no-licouse " would voto "no liquor." (Crios of "No.") Ho thought thoro would be general approval of tlio proposal thftt three Magistrates should deal with disputed polls, and in regard to the Nowtown and Bruce, polls he stud they rnunt v**» legislation this

session which would prevonb what had happened thero over occurring again. Mr. Ell: What about rlio Legislative Council? Tho Premier said that what mot the views of tho representatives of the people must bo the law of the land. If Iho Bill was altered materially in n given direction, the House would find him true to tho representatives of the people. There wero a large number of people who favoured State control, nnd nil thnt wns proposed wns that tho peoplo should say whether or not tho Colonial Secretary should introduce a Bill dealing with the subject. Ho did not say that he himself favoured State control, but ho thought it should be referred to tho peoplo. Tho proposals in rognrd to tho King Country woro tho sumo as those mndo by Mr. Mnnder last sesscion, but (in reply to an interjection) it would be wrong to nllow tho inhnbirnnls of I hat district to vote on tho locnl option issue It was absolutely necesmiry to stop tho importation of drink into tho Pook Islands, in tho interests of the natives. In conclusion, he remarked that this was not a Party question, nnd ho askod moinbers to assist him in perfecting our imperfect legislation, and plnce the sale of liquor under effective- control. Tho Leader of the Opposition commended tho Premier for tho moderation of his speech. The Bill was a species of "Saturday Supplement," containing a little to plense overybody. no would not oppose it, however, simply because it was a 'Licensing Bill, for ho would support any necessary nmondmonte, while ho would oppose any attempt to interfere with the rights of tho peoplo. Referring to clause 14, denling with irreKulnrities in tho polls, he regretted that tho clauso wns included in this Bill. This matter wns dealt with, in Mr. Tanner's Bill, nnd if it did not reuch the Statutebook it would bo the Premier's fault nlono. 110 was strongly of opinion that tho proper Court to denl with irregularities in the licensing poll was tho Court that dealt with irregularities in the electoral polls. Clause 9 of tho present Bill was not so objoctionablo as clause 9' of lost year's Bill, but it was nevertheless nn interference with the liberty of the subject. He was convinced that neither the House nor tho country wanted this clause and clause 10. With respect lo tho elimination of the reduction vole, ho urged that tho moderates desired that this voto should stnnd. Thero hnd boen no discrimination between houses that had been well conducted und thoso that hnd been ill-conducted in districts where reduction wn« enrried. Ho was in favour of granting compensation *to licensees whose licenses wero tnken away, on n basis of the hotels supplying the funds for compensation according to rental. Tho proposal to refer tho question of State control ro a re/orendum was one that ho could not approve. Tho question of State control was ono of tho most important that could bo dealt with, nnd owing to the gront number of> aspects with which it dealt it should not be submitted to the people. Municipal control, however, was a different thing, and a measure thereof could bo Hnfoly nnd successfully inaugurated. No one could approvo df what was going on in tho Kinc Country, where, in spite of numerous tines, convictions, nnd imprisonmontc*, sly grog-selling waa rampant and increasing. It was .a disgrace to tlw Government and to Parliament that thoto should be no difficulty in obtaining liquor without rest mint in that district. Ho would not onposo a local option poll in tho King Country, and would suugost thnt if "license" wero carriedt lioenwod houses should be introduced under the control of county councils. This would do away with drunkonncen und other nbunos. Mr. Fowldn snid he was satisfied thnt tho condition of things 'in tho King Country was not no bud as described. Tho Premier had no justification for thinking that the principal provisions oi tho Bill hod been asked for or desired by the great bulk of the people in tho colony. The Bill waa not a Bill designed to meet tho "moderate" party, its the Premier hnd contended, hut wns on attempt to j»lenso tho extremists, tho moderate* having been thrown overboard. Tho Premier hnd ' framed the Bill with the object of forcing the House to pass tho Bill at tho risk of losing the ueewlation of Locnl Elections Bill. Mr. Bedford "denied tho Premier's'allegation that tho temperance party woro notuatcd by a desire to «tir up strife and tnnnoil. All .that Uie Tcniperanco Curty desired was thnt tho matter should c left fairly in the hnnds of the pooplo for decision. 110 recognised ana applauded certain clauses in the Bill, but regretted tint they should come down in a Bill so loaded with objectionable clauses — clauitfs so objectionable that the Bill contained a preponderance of ovil. Thoro wns only ono soctiou of tho community I nut dernred clan so 9, and hnd agitated for it, and that wns tbo liquor party. Thnt clause wns designed to induce moderates who would have voted "no-Hoenoo" to vote for contimianw. Clauses 9 ahd 10 would also, if passed in the ruw, lend to. endless trouble. It was proposed • that all liquor should pn«* ' through the hands of a Government otlicer, and that wns well enough, but it was also proposed that the dovernment oflloial should bo able to retail tho liquor to nil nnd sundry. ' Beforo tho clause passed it would have to bo clearly shown that it wus not a menmiro of State control. It would 1^ unfair to submit tho question of Studt'coutvol to the people before tho naturo oi that control was explained to the people. Mr. ' Bedford also dcnlt with the number of issues that would bo placed before the elector at the next election, nnd urged that they would lend to groat confusion, und thai, in fact', they woro designed for this express purpose. 'It was improper to take awny from the people the poyor to express' nn opinion on one reduction issio when in past yeni"s they hud shown n desire to express an opinion upon il. The debate was adjourned at 0.16 a, in , on the motion of Mr. Hanan, and the Houso ro&e.