PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 26, Issue 48, 19 November 1932, Page 12

PARLIAMENT

End of the Estimates NO-CONFIDENCE MOVE Portfolio of Education WAY NOW CLEAR FOR BILLS (By Our Parliamentary Representative.) ‘ With the disposal of eight items by the House of Representatives yesterday, all classes of the main estimates of departmental expenditure for the current financial year have been sanctioned by Parliament. Six sittings have been required to dispose of these appropriations, which represent a total sum of approximately £20,000,000. Two of the largest items in the Estimates were discussed yesterday, ■ these being the Working Railways ■ Account of £4,915,082 and the Education vote amounting to £2,700,000. When the House met in the morning the Prime Minister, Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes, secured urgency for the classes not then disposed of. Good progress was made, with the result that the task allotted to members was completed within a few minutes of the customary time of the tea adjournment at 5.30. I In spite of the Prime Minister’s declaration that he accepted , the amendment as a motion of nolconfidence, three Government members voted with Labour, following a move by the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. H. E. Holland, to reduce the Education vote by £lO as a protest against the portfolio of Education not being held in the elective Chamber. The Government survived the amendment by 34 votes to 24. Important changes in connection with the settlement of Native lands are contained in the Native Lands Amendment Bill, which was introduced by Governor-General’s message in the morning and then read a first time. Its contents have already been outlined. The House adjourned, till Tuesday afternoon, when Government Bills will be considered, probably in the following order: Urban Farm Lands Rating, Hospitals and Charitable Institutions Amendment, and National Expenditure. Adjustment Amendment.

EDUCATION PORTFOLIO Adverse Amendment Rejected TAKEN AS NO-CONFIDENCE MOVE By 34 votes to 24 an amendment to reduce the estimates of the Education Department by £lO as a protest against the portfolio of Education being held by a member of the Legislative Council, was defeated in the House yesterday afternoon. The amendment was moved by the Leader of the Opposition, l Mr. H. E. Holland, and in reply the Prime Minister, Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes, stated that he took it as an amendment of no-confidence. Mr. H. S. S. Kyle (Govt., Riccarton), Mr. A. J. Stallworthy (Govt., Eden), Mr. A. M. Samuel (Govt., Thames), and Mr. E. T. Tirikatene (Ind., Southern Maori) voted with Labour. In moving that the vote be reduced as an indication that the Minister of Education should be in the elective Chamber, Mr. Holland said he was making no attack on the holder of that office, the Hon. R. Masters. Apart from that, however, it was a grave disability for the Minister not to be available when education estimates and other educational matters were before the House. The Chairman of Committees, Mr. S. G. Smith, said he doubted whether he could accept the amendment in that form. The difficulty could be overcome by moving simply that the vote be reduced. “A Good Substitute.” Mr. Kyle said he intended to support the amendment. At a deputation a few days ago the Minister stated that be represented the department when asked the reason for the absence of the Dlrec-' tor of Education, Mr. T. B. Strong. The position was now reversed, and they had the head of the department in the Chamber, but no Minister. “We have the Prime Minister as a substitute,” declared Mr. Kyle. A Member: And a good substitute, too. Mr. Kyle said he took it as a pergonal insult to be told that members of the House of Representatives were not capable of handling the of Education. There were two ex-Minis-ters of Education in the Chamber, Mr. R. A. Wright (Govt., Wellington Suburbs) and Mr. H. Atmore (Ind., Nelson). In addition, Mr. Smith was chairman of one of the most important education boards in the Dominion There were also other educationists in the House. “It is a personal insult to European and Maori members alike,” declared Mr. Kyle. Mr. Samuel said he supported the opinions expressed by Mr. Kyle. The education portfolio should be held by a Minister who was not only directly responsible to his own constituency but to that Chamber. Precedents Quoted. In reply, Mr. Forbes said it was not unusual for a Minister of Education to be in the Upper House, and ever since lie had been in the House he could recall occasions on which Ministers had not been in the House. It would be very unwise if the Prime Minister were deprived of using the best man available for the position. At a time like the present, when there was a great deal of difficult work to do, surely a Prime Minister should be at liberty to utilise the services of one who was so fitted to hold the portfolio as Mr. Masters, who had had a long experience of education. If there were a feeling that his judgment in this respect was not right he would immediately accept the amendment as a vote of nou’-confidence. The present Minister was a man of experience and he had a difficult task. He did not think that anyone had suffered because the Minister was not in the

house, and matters that had been raised had been expeditiously dealt with. School Books Contract. Dealing ■with criticism of the school books contract, Mr. Forbes said that before the contract had been entered into Mr. Masters had placed all the papers before Cabinet, which had approved what had been done. As Prime Minister, he would not have sanctioned anything likely to increase the charges for school books. The contract had been a beneficial one for parents of school children. The contract was a sound one, apprved by Cabinet and himself. Mir. E. J. Howard (Lab., Christchurch South) said that directly there was a desire to get a free expression on non-party lines the Prime; Minister stated that he accepted the amendment as one of no-confidence. Mr. J. McCombs (Lab., Lyttelton) said that matters educationally were to-day in a worse condition than they had been for the past 20 or even 30 years, and the Minister responsible for that retrogression was not present in the Chamber to give an account of his stewardship. NATIVE SETTLEMENT Minister Anticipates Check VIEWS ON AMENDING BILL. The opinion that an effective check would be placed on the development of native lands by certain clauses in the Native Land Amendment Bill, read a first time in the House yesterday, was expressed by the Minister of Native Affairs, Sir Apirana Ngata, when explaining the main principles of the measure, which is based largely on recommendations made by the National Economy Commission. The Minister added that it was for Parliament to accept the responsibility for the results/he believed would ensue from the operations of the Bill. The contents of the Bill were outlined in “The Dominion” on October 3. The Minister said the Native land settlement account had “gone to pot,” but that was not the fault of the Native Department. The policies of successive Governments had been responsible for the state of the fund. “We are now going to put it into liquidation—to put it on its own bottom, so to speak,” said the Minister, One clause provides for the abolition of the Native Land Purchase Board. The Minister said outstanding transactions would be completed. “This is a matter in which the House will have to assume responsibility,” said the Minister. “Where land is being acquired for general settlement the Native Land Settlement Board must act ’only on the recommendation of the Dominion Land Purchase Board, and my own opinion is that in practice that will block the purchase of land for native settlement.” The, condition is laid down in the Bill tliat no further surveys of native lands shall be authorised unless the cost of it is deposited or sufficiently secured to the satisfaction of the chief surveyor. The Minister explained that survey fees had made a severe drain on*the native land settlement account. He believed the new condition in practice would place an effective check on partitions or the acquisition by a private person of native land. “We will try; it, however,” .said the Minister, “and the House can assume responsibility.”

The Minister said it had not been found possible to adopt the commission’s recommendations regarding the East Coast Commissioner. The Native Trustee’s powers of investment would be taken over by a new investment board. “That will probably effect an improvement,” said the Minister, “but it remains to be seen if the departments which already have investment boards will come through the depression unscathed.” Mr. K. S. Williams (Govt., Bay of Plenty) asked whether the question of native rates was dealt with in the Bill. “No,” replied the Minister. “I discussed that matter with the Prime Minister, but it has been left over in view of the decision to investigate local body matters shortly. It has been suggested that native rates should be collected through the cream cheques, but we could do no more than bring our personal influence to bear in that direction. It is difficult to put local bodies before banks and mortgagees.” PRIZE-EUCHRE PARTIES Bill Read a First Time The School Committees’ Facilities Bill, which legalises prize euchre parties and other card tournaments held with the object of raising funds for.school purposes, was introduced and read a first time in the House yesterday morning. The Bill was sponsored by Mr. R McKeen (Lab., Wellington South), who expressed the hope that the Government would take up the Bill and take steps to arrange for its passage through the House at the earliest opportunity, or failing (that that the necessary facilities be extended to him. ' i .

Mr. McKeen said that for years past school committees had been conducting euchre parties to raise funds for their schools. Although the Gaming Act, which made it illegal to hold these parties, had been passed In 1908 it was only, in recent years that action had been taken against school committees. It could be safely said that that action had not been 'taken because of parties run by school committees, but because of the action of some people in running them for private gain. As late as last Saturday school committees in Wellington had been notified by the police to cease holding prize euchre parties. The Bill permitted school committees and other school organisations to hold euchre parties and other card tournaments upon the issue of a permit by the Minister of Justice. He had discussed the Bill with a large number of members, particularly on the Government side of the House, and he had found they were in favour of it. He was anxious to get the Government to take up the Bill and pass it at the earliest possible opportunity, or give him facilities to put the Bill through. When the Act was passed it was never intended it should apply to such Innocent entertainments as card parties. SUBURBAN RAIL FARES Complaints of Differentiation The disparity in the railway suburban fares charged at Auckland and tho.se ruling at the other three main centres was complained of by several members when the estimates of the Railway Department were under consideration In' the House yesterday afternoon. Mr. F. Jones (Lab., Dunedin South}, Mr. W. Nash (Lab., Hutt), and Mr. J. McCombs (Lab., Lyttelton), all pointed out that the suburban rates at Dunedin, Wellington,

and Christchurch respectively were higher than the fares charged at Auckland. _ _ The Prime Minister, Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes, said that the Auckland suburban residents who travelled by train had a longer distance to walk from the station. , A Labour Member: Who shifted the station? Mr. Forbes said that when people had to walk some distance when they arrived at the railway station, travelling by train was not so attractive a proposition. That was the reason for the lower tariff at Auckland. ' Mr. Jones: All the people who travel by suburban trains at Dunedin do not work around the station. Mr. Forbes said they did not have to whlk the same distance as suburban residents at Auckland. Mr. Nash had already asked a question in connection with the disparity between the fares charged at Auckland and on the Hutt line. He had promised to look into the question of suburban fares and see what could be done to obviate complaints. GROUND RENTAL Special Protection Criticised A recommendation that the protection given to ground rents under the National Expenditure Adjustment Act should be removed was made to the House yesterday by the Statutes Revision Committee which heard evidence on the question this week. ( , A clause in the amending Bill proposed the repeal of the protecting clause, but the Prime Minister, Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes, intimated that no definite action would be taken until those interested had had an opportunity to state their views. It was stated in the House that municipal authorities and harbour boards were the main bodies who had tendered evidence. Mr. H. G. R. Mason (Lab., Auckland Suburbs) said a good.deal of evidence had been taken. The fall in rents in Wellington and other places had been very striking. For example, a shop previously let for £l7 was now let for £4. That might be a particularly striking case, but the instances eited before the committee could be fairly summed up by saying that a reduction of only 30 per cent, was the experience of the fortunate landlord.

Regarding takings, Mr. Mason said an instance had been given of a hotel the takings of which had dropped from £59,000 to £23,000. Those simple figures, which were representative of the sort of evidence given, showed clearly, enough the hardship under which 'owners of premises were labouring. “It is difficult for me to understand why this clause was ever included in the original Act,” said Mr. W. P. Endean (Govt., Parnell). “Its inclusion cannot be justified on any legal, moral Or equitable grounds. The main principle underlying the Act was the reduction of overhead costs, and yet, when the advocates of the retention of this section were asked to justify their claim oh this ground they, could not offer an explanation why. in connection with ground rents, the lessors should get certain benefits which were denied to the lessees while sub-tenants would get a reduction.” To indicate how the depression had affected rentals, Mr. Endean cited tlie case of the rent roll of the Dilworth Building in Auckland. The rentals dropped from £10,602 in 1928 to £5049 this year. That drop of 50 per cent, was probably a good index of the general decrease. NATIONALITY OF ALIENS More Inquiries to be Made Pending inquiries being made from the United Kingdom through the Minister of Internal Affairs, Hoh. A. Hamilton, the Statutes Revision Committee recommended to the House yesterday that the British Nationality and Status of Aliens (in New Zealand) Amendment Bill be not proceeded with this session. The Bill was introduced by Mr. P. Fraser (Lab., Wellington Central). The report of the committee was agreed to. In view of the fact that the Government has introduced a similar measure the Statutes Revision Committee recommended to the House yesterday that the Judicial Proceedings (Regulation of Reports) Bill, which was Introduced by Mr. P. Fraser (Lab., Wellington Central), be not allowed to proceed. The report of the committee was agreed to. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Sinking Funds Bill Amended The Local Authorities Sinking Funds Bill, giving a moratorium for two years to the Public Trustee, was passed by the, Legislative Council yesterday. When the Bill was in Committee the Leader of the Council, Hon. Sir James Parr, brought down an amendment designed to make clearer the position of local bodies, which, like the Mount Albert Borough Council in Auckland, had already by resolution removed the Public Trustee from office and appointed in his place new persons as commissioners. • Sir James said that the Bill made the appointment of the new trustees and their acts absolutely invalid although they might h;ive acted in quite good faith. Naturally the new trustees were apprehensive as to their position. The amendment, in effect, provided that all moneys paid to the new trustees shall be deemed as lawfully paid to them, but within one month the new commissioners must pay to the Public Trustee all moneys received by them with corresponding securities, whereupon the new commissioners would be released from all liability. The amendment safeguarded the position of the new trustees. The amendment was agreed to. The Bill was put through its final stages and passed. The Ohai Railway Board Bill was passed without amendment. The Contraceptives Bill was read a first time. The Council adjourned until Wednesday next.