PARLIAMENT IN SESSION

Dominion, Volume 19, Issue 296, 10 September 1926, Page 10

PARLIAMENT IN SESSION

AGRICULTURAL COLLEGE QUESTION

AN OFFER FROM LINCOLN COLLEGE

The Government legislative proposal aiming at the establishment of an agricultural college that will serve the needs of the whole Dominion was debated for many hours in the House of Representatives. The southern members, urging the claims of Lincoln College, raised opposition to the Bill, and a good deal was made out of the announcement of one member of a belated offer relating to the transfeience of the Lincoln endowment to the State. The Prime Minister participated in the debate, and summed up, his counsel was to delay no further in providing on the site chosen, the institution which would mean so much to the farming community from an educational and research point of view.

. In moving the Bill’s second reading, the Minister of Agriculture (Hon. O. J. Hawken) reminded the House that the measure would provide the machinery for the higher education of farmers and facilities for engaging m research work that were not at present available. The college would be a residential one for a number of students, and would also provide a summer course in farming on similar lines to that at Lincoln College in Canterbury. It was expected that those students would form the bulk of those attending the institution. In addition, there would be a short course of perhaps ten weeks’ duration for factory managers and workers who desired it. “Ihat teaching,” added the Minister, “is very necessary; it is indeed wonderful how well, up to now, the dairy factories have got on without any teaching It seems necessary that these workers should have an opportunity to learn the technical side of their business and the finer points of their work.” Continuing, Mr. Hawken explained that it was proposed to teach a limited number of scholars for a period of four years, in order that they might qualify for the Bachelor of Agriculture degree. A large number of scholars in that category was not expected. It was possible that some of the wealthy farmers would send their sons to the college for the four years, but it was not anticipated that the number would be very large. The Research Side. “The next part of the college’s activity,” said the Minister, “will be the research work. Throughout New Zealand, I think members will agree, there is a movement in favour of more research work than we are doing at the present time. I believe that it is necessary; it stands to reason that the industry that provides the major portion of the wealth of this country should have the benefit of research work. There are many directions in which the work can be carried out, and be made of value.” Stressing further the value of the college from that aspect, the Minister touched upon the desirability “ of co-ordination; and with the establishment of the agricultural college and the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research co-ordination of the research work throughout , the, country was expected. Throughout the world during the past few years, agricultural education had come to the fore, and such keen competition would be forthcoming from the countries which had developed it, and which had plenty of land, that New Zealand should organise her primary industry in such a way as to enable her to compete against the cheaper land and the cheaper labour. "If we do not do so,” declar- *■ ed Mr. Hawken, “they will beat us, and we will go to the wall in the end. If we want leaders we must train them, and the same applies to research workers. I believe that they should come from New Zealand and from this college.” It had been suggested that teachers and professors could be imported cheaper than they could be educated and trained locally. That might be so, but not for one moment would he admit that the opportunity should be denied our own boys—and. girls—to become instructors in the science of agricultural farming. The young farmers growing up to-day required instruction at the hands of men who had had not only the necessary experience, but also a high-class education. It would tio doubt take time to obtain from the new college the required number of trained teachers to impart to future farmers the pripciples of high-class farming that New Zealand would have to -engage in as time went on. Functions of the College. He wanted to make it perfectly clear, however, that the idea that the college would teach only graduates was a mistake. The college was intended to be a trainer of farmers, and the training ground for those who wanted to work in the factories, those who would have the management of the forests in tlye future and other matters appertaining to the land, as well as training a number of future teachers. He reiterated that research work would be a very important part of the activities of the college. Dealing with the financial side of the college, the Minister said that the grants from the State and the Wellington and Auckland Universities should give the college a good standing. He was sure from past experience that those who had taken an interest in agriculture would continue to give bequests, this time for the benefit of the new college. .Lincoln College. On the question of Lincoln College, Mr. Hawken stated that naturally the Government could not undertake to spend money in large sums on it when it did not possess the control. The Government, prior to the decision to erect the college at Palmerston North, had received no definite offer to make the college a Government institution. He understood that a movement was now on foot in Canterbury m that direction, but the Government had already committed itself, and the offer had come so late that an awkward position had arisen. There must be only the one college. Lincoln had a future; in the scheme it would come in for considerable help, and its status would be considerably improved. The Minister referred to the renovations that would have to be made, and estimated the cost of the new laboratories at £5OOO. He believed that much good would result from an interchange of students between the two colleges. Some students from the north could attend Lincoln College for pure agriculture, while those from Lincoln who wanted to studv dairying could come to the other institution. The Minister considered that that would be the best means of settling the differences between the two islands. The Government was quite willing to place Lincoln College on a better footing. He hoped the Bill would be put through, and that the college would be established Southern Opposition. The Leader of the Nationalist Party (Mr. G. Forbes) said that the Minister appeared to be trving to work up enthusiasm in a proposal that he

did not feel very keen about himself. The farmers’ idea of such an institution was a place where he could learn how to get better results from his farm. The Bill, however, proposed to set up an educational institution under the Minister of Education. Lincoln College had turned out some brilliant young men, but some, of them had afterwards to leave New Zealand, because there was nothing for them to do here. “What are the needs of the farmer in this country? inquired Mr. Forbes. The Minister of Agriculture: Education. . . . . X Mr. Forbes: Not education, but better methods and greater care in work of the farm. . x . Continuing, Mr Forbes said that, in the matter of dairy testing, there was room for great improvement, but this work would not come from the students of an agricultural college. The Bill proposed a scheme of centralisation which would not give results. He was of opinion that the cost would be very little short of a quarter of a million pounds, but, of course, this was an age of “hang the expense.” Mr. Forbes said the crux of the position was that the Auckland and Wellington universities would not agree to have Lincoln as the principal college, and the Minister was obeying the behests of the universities. A Definite Offer. Mr. D. Jones (Ellesmere) was of opinion that the Leader of the Nationalist Party was rather discounting the value of agricultural education. The question was not a provincial, but a Dominion one The request for such a college came from the Farmers Unions. The question was, whether the Bill gave the farmers what they required. Sir Frank Heath had emphasised the necessity of making the most of the institutions New Zealand already possessed, and of avoiding centralisation. That was an exceedingly important point, as the local 'interest that centred around such institutions as Lincoln College and the Cawthorn Institute was invaluable. He hoped the Government would not go'in for a centralising policy in that connection. “When the Prime Minister maoe the statement that Canterbury would not give the farm over to the nation,” said Mr. Jones, “I immediately got to work, and I received a promise from the majority of the board—l have not approached two members because they would have to report back to their A. and P. associations —stating that if Lincoln is made the Agricultural College tor New Zealand, "Canterbury will hand over that magnificent institution to the people of New Zealand to become the Agricultural College for New Zealand. Mr. Knight, chairman of the board, and Mr. Buddo, also a member of the board, informed Canterbury members that they would agree. That college is estimated as being worth £220,000, but let us say £200,000. That is a magnificent gift.” Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Avon) : That Is a lot better than the Palmerston North offer. “Gift Not too Late.” “This gift,” continued Mr. Jones, "Canterbury Province is prepared to hand over to New Zealand. It may be said that the offer is too late. Personally, I am of the opinion that it is not, as the Minister should be big enough to grapple with the situation even now. The college has rendered magnificent service at no cost to the public. Although the number of students has not been great, more degree men have been turned out than this Dominion could absorb.”. He hoped the Government would reconsider the whole question of the proposed new agricultural college in view of that offer. He felt sure that the main system of instruction to the farmers in the near future would be by the medium of wireless. Mr. H. T. Armstrong (Christchurch East) considered that the ultimate cost of tlie proposed new college in the North Island would be not less than £300,000. The Minister of Agriculture: Oh, no; nothing like it. Mr. Armstrong said that for a mere fraction of that sum Lincoln College could be brought up to date. If, however, the Government’s proposal to have one big central institution were sound Lincoln was not required, and might as well be scrapped. Delay Suggested. Mr. W. H. Field (Otaki) held that the time was not opportune for spending so large a sum as £250,000 of the taxpayers’ money on the proposed college. It was the worst possible time—a critical time, in fact—in the Dominion’s history to launch such an expensive scheme even for such an important subject as agricultural education. The scheme put forward by the 'Government was even now only ”lialfbaked.” He wondered if the Minister himself understood what he really wanted! Certainly the public had not gathered what was meant by the term “an agricultural college.” It appeared that such an institution mainly produced graduates in agriculture, few of whom could be absorbed by the Dominion. New Zealand might train these graduates, but most of them would have to find work in other countries. Mr. Field compared the gifts from Auckland and Wellington for agricultural education with the latest one from the Lincoln College authorities affirming that the former sank into insignificance now the Canterbury offer had been made. Tn his oninion the Government should follow the lines of Sir Frank Heath’s report of centralisation and coordination. Mr. Field urged that the State farm at Weraroa should be kent in view in any efforts made to establish an improved system of agricultural education. Example of Rush Legislation Mr. T. , K. Sidev (Dunedin South) said that apparently members were hesitating to endorse the Government’s proposal in view erf the present posi-

tion of the Dominion. The debate had not been confined to one island, or to one party. Members of the Government Party had freely commented, ano adversely, on the Government’s policy regarding agricultural education. The Bill was a bad example of rush legislation. The proposed college would be no more a Government institution than Lincoln was. The Minister of Agriculture: Lincoln College belongs to Canterbury. This college belongs to New’ Zealand. Mr. Sidev thought the Government should first make up their mind as to what position Lincoln College would occupy in the future. Mr. J. Mason (Napier) thought a great deal of discussion would have been saved had the Bill been first brought down, and the site chosen subsequently If it had not been for the purchase of a site at Palmerston North, probably nothing would have been heard of the gift offer from the Lincoln College authorities. He contended that nothing but a college of the very highest standard would meet the requirements of the Dominion. A great deal of attention was being paid in all countries to the scientific branches ot agricultural education, and New Zealand must not lag behind. Co-opera-tion and co-ordination would make the new venture a great success, and he urged unity of action in connection with the various bequests. Mr. W. D. Lysnar (Gisborne) held that the subject must be approached without any reference to the site question, which was not mentioned in the Bill. The experimental side should be the first consideration; and research work was badly needed in many reSP Mr. S J. R. Hamilton (Awarua) said the South Island people were not looking at the matter parochially, although the Bill was all North Island. (Hear, hear.) It was proposed to spend far too much money on the proposal in view of the comparatively few farmers’ sons who would be able to attend the college. The Dominion wanted the services of a few highly-trained scientific men, having a full knowledge of the science of soils and all matters pertaining to higher agriculture. Large sums had been spent on the State farms in the North Island, and if an agricultural college were needed, the offer made in regard to Lincoln College should be accepted, and an up-to-date institution built up there. The Leader of the Opposition (Mr. H. E. Holland) twitted, the Government members on the opposition they had advanced against the Bill, and said it would be interesting to observe what would happen when it came to the vote. He also protested against the action of the Government in leaving the Bill until the end of the session. H< wondered whether there had been a definite official offer to the Government respecting Lincoln College. It was well known that the Government were committed to Palmerston North. If they were not, they should make Lincoln College the chief place for agricultural education. Mr. Holland said he supported the general principles of the Bill. The College First. The Prime Minister (Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates) stated that the question as to the varying .opinions expressed on the subject and the delay in bringing down the Bill could be answered. He agreed entirely with the statement of the Leader of the Opposition that if New Zealand wished to keep pace with the advancing programmes in other parts of the world it must give the young neople the opportunity to benefit by scientific research and agricultural education. The farming community was up against the prevalent competition and had to meet it. The time had come to examine the position and endeavour to arrive at a conclusion as to whether enough was being done to meet the requirements of the future in that matter. If it were going to cost £150,000 to acquire a site and start the machinery in motion for the provision of the agricultural education required, then let the money be taken from roads and railways for the purpose In the course of ten or fifteen years the result of the research, the effect of the knowledge obtained, and the advice which would radiate throughout the country, would be ' of undoubted value to the producers. It was no use using rule of thumb methods. The day of the slasher had practically gone. Mr. Coates quoted from his election manifesto to show the determination of the Government to provide the research and the education the farmers needed, and the opinion that various experts had expressed that the college should be established in a central position. Parliament was by no means ignorant of the proposals contained tn the Bill, the appearance of which had been delayed in an endeavour to secure unanimity among members in preference to forcing the measure through. So far they had not been able to get members unanimous on some definite line of action. The land at Palmerston North had been found by the experts to contain the properties that were required. A member: Is the Palmerston. North site bought? The Prime Minister: The commitment is made. I do not like to say whether it can be got out of. "You want a dairv institution, anvwav,” interiected the Leader of the Nationalist Partv (Mr G W. Forbes) One Instead of Four. Proceeding, the Prime Minister affirmed that the Government’s policy required

no defence. The farmers needed knowledge, and science should be at the elbow of efficiency. There had been sufficient investigation to enable a sound conclusion to be arrived at, and the matter should be settled once and for all. Reverting to the Palmerston North site, the Prime Minister said that another reason prompting its selection was the fact that rail, road, and other communications of that description were conveniently centred there. Mr. Coates proceeded to show what the position would be if the one college idea were not prosecuted to completion. There would be two attempts at agricultural instruction—by the universities in the North Island, and with the Taranaki and Hawke’s Bay endowments there would be another two. That meant about four colleges of a mediocre type instead of concentration on one of high quality. Whether the handing over to the State of Lincoln College by' the Board of Governors would make any difference, added Mr. Coates, was a matter of opinion. Although nulling official had reached the Government, he was prepared to accept the word of the member for Ellesmere that they were prepared to transfer the endowment to the Government. Canterbury members, in chorus, stated th the offer had been made to the Canterbury members of Parliament by the chairman of the board unconditionally. A Broad View Needed. The Prime Minister said he failed ’ to see how an institution such as Lincoln College would be handed over unconditionally. Lincoln College was to be retained, and would be brought up to date. According to what had been said by the Minister of Agriculture, it was proposed to expend £lO,OOO in that direction. Regarding the central college, he asked members to see the position the Government was in. The matter was of vital importance, and one they should not lose the opportunity of dealing with at once. The position would not improve as time went on. The Government had attempted to grapple with and solve the problem in an honest attempt to meet a national necessity. “I say,” added Mr. Coates, "cut almost anything—l don’t care what it is—to make a start with the investigation into what I may describe as our very life’s existence, our primary products, and Assist the farming community by placing at their disposal men who are thoroughly efficient in the research side.” Ln conclusion Mr. Coates again impressed on members that the matter 'equired their earnest attention, and he trusted that they would take the broadest view possible, at the same rime recognising some of the difficulties that existed. More About the Site. Mr. H. H. S. Kyle (Riccarton) said that everything that was required to enable students to attain a thorough knowledge of agriculture, and farming, was to be found at Lincoln College. He doubted if New Zealand would be able to absorb the number of students passing through a big central college run on the lines contemplated under the Bill. Mr. J. Linklater (Manawatu) hoped the Agricultural College would be soon established, as it would prove of incalculable benefit to the farming community. Top-dressiug was the prime need of the farmer to-day, and research work in that direction was greatly j wanted. He considered Weraroa was a very suitable locality for a central college. Mr. F. Waite (Clutha) said the Farmers’ Union, and other organisations, did not care where the college was established as long as a start was made with such an institution. He deprecated the cry of North Island versus South. Mr H. G. Dickie (Patea) considered that a central research institute with laboratories situated in the midst of the industries it was designed to help would fulfil all present requirements. (Proceeding.) WIRELESS INSTRUCTION HOME TRADE CERTIFICATES. Consideration is to be given the question of teaching wireless in one of the technical schools of the Dominion for the benefit of candidates for home trade certificates, according to a statement made in the House yesterday by the Minister of Marine (Hon. G. J. Anderson), in reply to a question by Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Avon). Mr. Sullivan said that he had received representations that insufficient facilities were provided at present for the candidates, and he wanted to know whether the Minister could do something in the matter. Replying, the Minister said that as far as he" knew, New Zealand was the first country to lay down the principle that one of the conditions of obtaining a certificate was that the seaman should have a knowledge of wireless. He believed that the policy was a proper one in view of the fact that in the future wireless would be used to a greater extent than was generally conceived, and ships would rely on it for navigation purposes. The main reason for the provision was that the Government was desirous of having the small ships installed with wireless, and that meant that someone on board would have to have some knowledge of wireless, in order that simple signals j should be dispatched or received. He

understood tnat tne union company was quite agreeable that anyone desiring to take lessons would be allowed to attend the school in Wellington. He did not consider that the Government was called upon to establish wireless schools any more than to institute nautical schools. However; he would discuss the matter with his colleagues and see if wireless could be taught in one of the technical schools of the country. AN AERIAL FLIGHT "AIR OR HOT AIR.” A mooted aerial Hight to Australia was referred to in the House yesterday by Mr. J. A. Lee (Auckland East), who asked the Minister of Defence whether his attention had been drawn to a statement made in Auckland by Captain Robert Robertson that he proposed to fly to Australia with the assistance of the New Zealand Government. “It has been intimated to me in Auckland, ■' added Mr. Lee, “that he. is not an airman, but a ‘hot air’ man, and I want to know whether the Government intends to assist him.” In reply, the Minister of Defence (Hon. F. J. Rolleston) said that the Department had no official knowledge of the gentleman or his proposal; neither did it know anything of his bona tides. “The Government,” added the Minister, “has not agreed to assist him in any way.” THE HARRIS INCIDENT NO FURTHER DISCUSSION. As far as the Prime Minister Is concerned, what has become known as the "Harris incident” in the House is closed. When approached by a Dominion reporter yesterday, Mr. Coates pointed out th’at he had alreadv stated his views in public, and he did not desire to discuss the matter further. “The duty of Mr. Harris," added the Prime Minister, “is quite clear. When he accuses the Government of being influenced by interested parties, it seems that there is nothing we can discuss. In view of that, I fail to see what good can be achieved by going further into this matter with Mr. Harris. That is my feeling on the matter, and I want it to be clearly understood. If he has made the statement under a misapprehension, the sooner it is cleared up the better.” LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL The Legislative Council met at 11 a.m. yesterday, and passed the Imprest Supplv Bill No. 3. At 2.30 p.m., the Local Legislation Bill and the Reserves Disposal Bill were passed through all stages without . amendment. The Council adjourned until to-day.