THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3147, 27 July 1917, Page 6

THE HOUSE

ADDRESS-IN-REPLY DEBATE The House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. Mr. H. J. H. OIvEY (Taranaki) resumed the debate on the Address-in-Heply. He congratulated the Prime Minister and the Finance Minister on their safe return to New Zealand, saying that he believed that the visit of our Ministers to England had done much good for this country, it w;ls not now the fashion in the House to speak of the importance of efforts made by the Government for the better marketing of our produce. He maintained that ihe producers were entitled to as good a price for their produce as was paid for produce reaching the. Home Country from countries not belonging to tho Umpire. Possibly the producers were now getting good prices, but after the war who would have to pay the taxation but tho producers? The Ministers had*secured for New Zealand increased prices for meat, but he still held that the prices for beef had not been increased sufficiently. In regard to wool also the- first offer made had not been considered a fair one, i>nd the Imperial Government had amended the offer, with the result that a million sterling more came I* the producers of this country. A .good deal had been said about the high prices paid for New Zealand cheese, but the fact was that last year the New Zealand producers received payment at tho rate of !)Sd- per lb., while tho Canadians received U-Jd. per lb. How Many Men? deferring to Defence matters,''he suid that the Minister had done extremely woll generally, but ho had made somo mistakes. The first mistake was the formation of the Rifle Brigade, tho Earl of Liverpool's Own, a. brigade inarching 5i different step, wearing a different libbon, and requiring different training. This had caused difficulties in tho training, arid a good deal of jealousy among tin© boys of the Main Body. Another mistake was in tho sending away of more than sufficient reinforcements, r,nd permitting tho formation of a new brigade. This entailed the appointment of another.. staff and more transport, at additional expense to this country. He considered that tho Minister should have insisted upon these men being used for roinforcemenls only. Now that tho troops had been formed into this new brigado they could never bo used rs reinforcements. Now the time was approaching when Second Division men would have to be called upon. He did not think that it would be necessary for any Second Division men io leave New Zealand for a year yet, although some of them might have to go into camp. He would not be in favour of sending inarried men until better provision had been made for their dependants. No married men should bo sent while a single First Division man remained witl. us. Even some of tho returned men who had recovered their health might go ■ before the married men. But first and most important of all, ho urged that tho Government should let the country know what New Zealand had piomiscd to do.. If we sent.all the men in the country we could not win the war. New Zealand would do its share, but tlie Government should let tho country know what that share was. The sending away of so many reinforcement. l ! was depopulating our country districts and unsettling tho farmers. In llio dairying districts it was impossible to rrrange to have the farms carried on by retired farmers or anybody else. The Butter-fat Levy. Ho strongly condemned tho butter-fat tax, describing it as a sort of blackmail levied on the farmers. A better scheme, he thought, would have been for the Government to purchase butter for local consumption, and sell it to the retailers. Burdensome and unfair taxation of this kind would tend to "retard n;eu from leaving the towns and pleasures of life there to go iuto tho country to work on tlie laud. He hoped the Government would repay to the dairy farmers the levy that had been wrongfully and illegally imposed upon them. Very few of the members of the House lealised what tho farmer had to put up with, and it was becoming a custom in the House to rail at the farmers. The farmers should not tolerate this any longer. Until tho Government repaid this illegal tax they would not hear the last of this cow-tax, which no other p.iity in the House would have dared to impose. A Labour Member. Mr. A. WALKER (Dunedin North) i referred to the conviction of P. C. Webb. j'He said that he knew something of I shorthand, and he expressed tho opinion i that Webb should not have been convicted on the evidence of a constable who I got down no more than about DO words a minute, in a report full of imperfections. He was in favour of six o'clock 1 : closing, and he was not sure that the sale of liquor during the day hours should not be restricted also. He urged the Government to increase the old-age pension by at least 50 per cent, for the period of the war. The allowances made to dependants of soldiers were for too low, and tho pensions also were inadequate. He had succeeded in getting penj sions increased in certain cases that had I been brought under his. notice, but he ha<l failed in otlier cases, and many of tho pensioners did not know how to set about remedying; injustices. / Soldiers and Dependants. Mr. E. I'. LEE (Oamaru) referred at somo length to his recent visit to Britain and France. He assured the Hou.se that the New Zealand soldiers at the front were being well cared for. The conditions were ■extraordinarily severe I oven wiion tho military authorities had I done their best for the men, and l'arliaj ment should keep that fact in mind j when considering the treatment of the I soldiers and their dependants. The pre- | sent pension scheme and tho provision made for the dependants were inadequate. The Government must do jus- '■■ tico to the soldiers, and tho House must i realise that it had responsibility in the matter. If Cabinet did not do iU duty, Parliament must press the Ministers to ! bring down the necessary measures. A ' statement that the Dominion could not afford to pay adequate pensions and allowances could not bo accented. Nc-w Zealand had spent soinsthjns like. .-G40,000,000 on the war, and could not shirk the further expenditure required in justice to the soldiers. Mr. Lee said he regarded the demands put forward by the Second Division League as in the niain moderate and reasonable. The payments iiHisf bo adequate, and the position of the disabled men and the dependants must be made secure by law, and rot dependent on the will of a board.. He realised that if chaos was to be avoided, arrangements must be made to tarry on the businesses of Second Division men. The House was entitled to see the re- ■ parts of the National Efficiency Board and to know what the Government in- ■■ tended to do about tho board's rcconi-

mondations. The Efficiency Commissioners were itblo mid highly-qualified men, and their reports could not bo «ct aside lightly. He urged tho Government to provide a method of reviewing the decisions of the War Pensions Hoard in cases where mistakes had been made. Ho quoted the cafe of a returned soldier who had not received any pension owing to ii misunderstanding regarding the date of application. The man had tome b&ck severely wounded and had suffered permanent injury. He had been under tho impression that a patriotic society was making his application, but there hud been a mistake somewhere and the nifii had got nothing, although he had been unable to work for ten months after his discharge. 11 r. Lee urged the Government to put a very heavy tax on beer. The present 'tax tras very BiniiU indeed, while the profits made on the sale ct liquor were enormous. Hf •upported six o'clock closing as a war measure. Ministers on Trial. Mr W. T. YOUNG (Waikato) said New Zealand must do its part without flinching in winning the war, bub it mu«t not be carried away by patriotic impulse. There was a limit to Hie country's capacity for effort. It had to bo admitted at the present time that tlu resources of New Zealand had not been or'aniswl for war on a basis of equal sacrifice The National Government was on its trial in this respect. The "wait and see" policy could not endure. Ji that policv contented the Government, the people and the Legislature would rise in their might and demand ctangi'S There did not appear to be the trust and confidence nmong members of the Government that there should be. The House certainly was not in the conhdence of the 'Government in the way members had a right to expect. He telieved it would be a right thing lo hold a secret session in order that, members mi»ht ask questions, some of them awkward questions, and receive exact information in reply. Tho Ministers possessed information that members nail a ri»ht to share. No Mininster was entitled to° sat, as the Defence Minister had said, "Leave my officers alone." That attitude justified the demand for a secret session in order that there might be a frank statement of opinions. Mr. Young Raid that the excess profit's tax had not operated fairly. He believed that every penny of actual war profit should betaken by the Government for war purpises if the amount could be ascertained. Hut the excess profits tax had been in effect a levy on capital and industry in a great many cases. The Government undoubtedly would require to raise a great deal "of money by means of taxation. Incomes and land would both be required to bear added burden*. Hut the Governmeut must so arrange its burden that there would be the least possible interference with industry and enterprise. The butter-fat levy was an example of a thoroughly bad tax. The Meat Trust. Referring to the operations of tho Meat Trust, Mr. Young said the farmers 'were making a very great mistake in "oing past r.licir own co-operative concerns and the freezing works in which they were interested, and selling their products to outsiders, who would pay a slightly higher price. The producers who put their present profit lieforo future ■safctv were playing into the hands of 'tho Meat Trust. They were assisting to force the local concerns to the wall, and when the designs of tho trust had been achieved the price paid to the producers would fall, while the cost to tho consumers would rise. He believed tho Government eventually would have to handle the whole of the exports of New Zealand. No other method would suffice to defeat the machinations of tho great trusts which were trying : lo secure control not merely of meat but of other foodstuffs. Ho could tell the uovernment that a foreign corporation vas seeking at present to secure the services of skilled butter and cheese-makers, with the intention ultimately of getting control of tho factories. If that effort succeeded the producers would suffer very severely. ; Mr. Vigor Brown (Napier): Are you simple enough to believe tho Government is going to do anything? Mr. Young: "The members <-f this House can force the hands of (he Government and got something done if they are in earnest." He referred to tho presence of many able-bodied eliens in the northern districts. If these Austrians on tho gum-fields and elsewhere were Slavs then they should not be excused from military service. They slioulcl be sent to fight with tho Slave of Kussia and Serbia against the Germans. Cost of Living. Mr. A. S. MALCOLM (Ciutlm) said he was sorry 'the Government had not made more use of the services of members of the House during tho recess. Ministers had not shown confidence- in members, and tho .Dominion had lost a certain amount of efficient service. He condemned the butter-fat tax, but said 'the Government should make a serious effort to reduce the cost of'living. An effective method would bo to promote competition. The Government bad reduced the price of meat in Auckland by opening a shop for the retail sale of nieat. He would like to see it acquire a ftourmill, buy some ships, and gradually become an active factor in the distributing industries, thus assisting to keen down prices. Mr. Malcolm supported six o'clock closing. Tho State, which had made the publicans rich by giving them a monopoly, was justified in asking any sacrifice from any man in the cause of national efficiency "during the wnr. Alcohol was an evil influence in the community, and the advantage of Prohibition to his own eleotorato had been enormous. Post-War Problems. ■Referring to post-war problems, Mr. Malcolm said New Zealand could safely count on high prices prevailing after tho war. Every great war of the past had been followed by severe commercial depression. The demand for wool, meat, and dairy products after the war would be very keen indeed, but high prices could not prevail if the nations had not enough money to pav them. It was possible that industrial recovery would be favoured by the stimulation of invention, as had been the case after the Napoleonic wars. New Zealand in any case should not go forward under a careless belief that no trouble could come. Ho was very glad to notice that the Minister of Finance was building np reserves against future requirements. No limit could be' set to the number of i»en to be sent from New Zealand. A policy of hesitation would almo=t certainly cost lifp in the long run. The duty of every portion of the Empire wns to nve.=s for an cariv, victorious termination of the war. Germany was putting up a very strong fight, but there was nn element of bluff in her attitude. The British Empire must present a determined front to the enemy. Any sign of wavering would encourage Hie Germans and delay the victorv. If the British were weary. ra! were' the G-rmar.?. Wellington had said once +Tint the soldiers of nil nation" were equally brave, but that the British soldier was 'miver for a quarter of nil hour longer than the others. It was tho Inst niinrtpr of an hour that ronnted. The. British npojile had made such sacrifices that thev must make the end worthy of the sacrifices. Men or Produce? ]t had been suggested in the House, said Mr Malcolm, that New Zealand could do better service to the Emiiiro bv sending produce than by sending men. He did not believe that view was a correct one. The Imperial authorities were sending shins for New Zealand produce at some inconvenience i to themselves. If the Primo Minister were in a position to cable to London that *sw Zealand would hold her products until tho close of the war lie would almo-t certainly receive a very grateful ronly ni'd aii assurance that no further 'effort would be made to send ships so far aficjcl at the present critical time. It \vns very largely as a concession and a privilege to New Zealand that the Tmnpvial "authorities were trying to rrovi'de shins for the Dominion's at n period of shipping shortage. Britain wauled men more than produce just now TM"rri'ia ,0 Imnpvi.il or?nni°n-t-inii' Mr.'Malcolm saul he believed Hie Fmiiire niu-t have an Executive. The Dominion Ministers couild not make fremient visits to London, and the present loose organisation of the Empire would not suffice for the needs of the future He believed in organic union. The End of the Debate. A division wns called on Mr. M'Combs's amendment a> 9.20 p.m. Tho

amendment: proposed that a certain paragraph he added u> the Addrass, :uggiwting thai Hit) lime lad arrived far earefuit consideration of New Zealand's part in the war, and the size of reinforcement drafts. The bells wore rung, but afli-r ' the doors were looked Mr. M'Combs did not press for the division, allowing the amendment lo be defeated on the voices.

Sir. G. 11. SMITH (Pahi.atua), (he mover of the motion, rose to raply at 9.25 p.m. Tie referred first of nil to the question of the di/.o of reinforcements. He said that lie hud confidence that the Government would do the rijrlit thins, but the opinion was told by many people that: the- size of reinforcements was nndu.ly large for our Main Body. On this point the Defence Minister could with advantage inform the House. The motion was carried on the voices. The House rose at 9.30 n.m.