PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2557, 3 September 1915, Page 7

PARLIAMENT

♦ l" NEED FOR ECONOMY S ■■ .. a] '■■■ ■ '■ :—- ■ S( THE FINANCIAL DEBATE •.•■' ' . ■ Xi it TAX ON BEER AND SPIRITS t DISCUSSED t ■ 11 t ' ' fc The Legislative Council met-at 2.30 v p.m; • v . s The New Zealand Loans Amendment E Bill was received from the House, and C put through all stages at one sitting, r On the second reading .stage. - . t The Hon. S. T. GEOKGF, said that he <- v as- not altogether, in favour of raising ;.v loans on tho local market, for that I might ho tho moans of taking-money J from "local enterprises; It .might also i have an effccton the Savings Bank. The I money was, in his opinion, better/om- J ployed by private oompanies in local.en- > ,terprise. The Government,had shown: na 1 inclination towards economy, and 1.0 1 thought that they should havo led, tho i Dominion in this regard. The, Estimates I did not show it. Ho also thought the ( emoluments of the legislators might bo i reduced: ; He did not see any difficulty, < in raising the money," for. thero was an j immense amount awaiting investment.' i Probably (it tho present time it was im- 1 ■possible to'raise the-money outside Now i Zealand; and foiv that reason it may 1 have beon thought better to come to the i local market/ ■ He suggested= that a ( clause ehould be put.in tue Bill j^abling 'tile debentures to be made use of for tho < payment of death duties._ ,'lhatwould be an. immense advantage in winding up I large estates, and would immediate payment of dteath/duties, provided (hat the debentures bad been purchased : before the death of the person concerned.* Further, if'another loan-was required a higher Tate of interest would •have to be given. Thero should be power of conversion of all debentures 111 to tbe : lusher riites. 3e would this ft . condition that an/ equal amount "was t£.ken tip in the new loan. : ■ ' The Hon.' W. C. F. " OARNCROSS . 'said that they all recognised'-the loan : would be a direct J interference witn_ tno • - local 'money. market-,- but • .they had to give credit to the Government; for seoing.that it would be impossible-to raise ■ - the : money elsewhere; He favoured theprovision for small .investors, for, that would be educative to; the people, and tliev would tako a greater interest .in the financial affairs of the While . he did not favour a reduction m.tbe" emoluments to' legislators, he thought that savings on public works might be , effected/" Political interests did not at •/present tend to the best expenditure of public monoy, especially in regard tp railways, but■ now. that they : had a- Na l tional Government tnerewas; the opportunity to carry on their public "works in a business-like way. . Special • works should' he" pushed through in : special, localities/ but not the system'of doing little bits all over the country.: / Tho finished works (railways) would;then «t 'once become revenue producing. No. Indication of Economy." The Hon. J. DUTHIE said t'nat ho:was especially;..struck by the fact/that there was no indication of economy in the Budget. It was necessary - that ©very method <>f economy should be considered," and he instanced the Tourist Department. Despite tho war the full amount was set out in the Estimates for 'this Department. • Party: Govern-, meat had forced 'expenditure . up; ono side' drew another into: ■ expenditure., There would be difficulty in -the future in raising loans at all-in proportion to the past, and a high.-rate, of: interest, would be necessary.• This was not- a question of to-day, for; the extinction of these'loans would remain a l.urden upon the people'for a-quarter of a century. Tney 'would find that enterprise would not only, be burdened by tlio higher cost of capital, and the greater trouble m getting it, but the taxatior- upon tho 'country, would be crushing to. all enter'prise. -.They: could not look.-. to; prosperous go-ahead iays for' /some/time, and he for- one regretted ;ttat.it was not fully'pointed out that the general expenditure would be recast in the future. He- estimated that £500,000 could be' saved/in the year's/ expenditure. Tlw circumstances'of the.country were sucu that'they, could not trifle with the ques- : tion. He had no intention of opposing the Bill, but it was most important that the matter should be fully inquired into ail endeavour to avoid-public embarrassment.:/ ~ The Hon.: O . SAMLEL agreed that ■ above all else they , required retroncli- ■ tnent and 'economy in the public expenditure. They could afford no luxuries. Funds for ordinary work.had to ■be raised in our own midst, and thero had to be increased taxatipn. Before o-oing in for .extra taxation they could isave. Ho would havo liked : to have ■seen the National Cabinet take a longer 'adjournment for considering ■ the.. Budget. Even now, when the Estimates were down", he suggested that the •amounts voted should be recognised as the maximum, and they should exercise /the "priming knife" on those... items i which were in the nature'of luxuries. He found no fault with the Bill, hut i liis complaint was that much of the taxation bad. not been rendered unnecessary by free use of the pruningjknife on tlio Estimates. Ho hoped •the Government intended to go through 'the whole of the Estimates at leisure, and dotermine not to expend on one unnecessary item. Another effect of tho Bill would be on local bodies. Borrowing had gone mad in 'this, in his opinion, and the time, had arrived when they should consider placing some icontrol over,local bodies on. the ques- ' tion of borrowing. , Must Take Our Medicine. 1 The Hon. : SIR WILLIAM HALL•'JONES said that it was surprising at a- time like this, when economy had been impressed. on them on all • sides, •that there was no /economy in the Estimates. : Thoy were compiled and brought down as ill previous years, and they had been mounting up abnormally in past years. This colony would have to take its medicine, for it could .not go oil as in the: past. The Bill, under discussion referred to no amount, although they bad heard the loan would ' be for £2,000,000 for railway purposes mostly. Were they to spend big/sums for palatial stations? Bethought that even "Wellington could wait in_ this spect. Ho agreed with the Hon. Mr. Carncross, that the Department should be content to push on the construction of a limited number of linos at • once. They would have to, pursue a more rational course in their finances general-, ' ly. Referring to advances to settlers, he said this system, was inaugurated to assist, the struggling settlei', not, for lending sums of thousands for speculative purposes. The Hon.'C. H. MILLS did not,think the Civil Servants should be the first called oil to accept a reduction in their salaries Expenditure for Advancement. The Hon. SIR FRANCIS BELL said that be thought this was the first occasion that a Minister of tho Crown had listened to criticism and not'felt bmind . to defend. 'Ho had listened attentively to tho remarks. They must save money wherever it_ could be saved, but. with that admission he called attention first to the fact that tlio/proposal was for money that could only be spent for a a special purpose, i It had no relation to economy in the Consolidated Fund. They did not have before them tho Public Works Statement, and it was not reasonable to expect that there

would not be ail attempt to economise j in public works expenditure. • A largo i part of tho expenditure .under the Esti-.- i mates- was for schools, post offices, 1 hospitals, ctc., and'tho expenditure was necessary: for tlio advancement of the ; Dominion.'/Settlementwas going-on, and provision had to bo made. Take schools; for instance. '• The demandswero not only legitimate, but many of them;' were absolutely urgent. Districts that were without roads, etc., wore in pressing noed, and mcro humanity called for expenditure in those directions. That class of • expenditure could not bo reduced as the country. _ grow. ■ Tho provision : for th» million population was 110 provision for the tens ,of thousands .'itfio were adding to that population. He hoped tho time was coming when a surplus on the Consolidated Fund'would be sufficient for some of those works. Turning to the Consolidated Fund, ho referred to tho remarks that there 'had been no attempt made to econorhiso. A large increase was due to extra interest and war pensions. The salaries were a comparatively small .percentage of tho - expenditure. As to "the Tourist Department, many of the employees, in the Department were working for other Departments. Further, many Civil Servants .had gone to the war, and those left behind were doing the extra work. Ho was not saying everything was being done, but he sincerely said the Civil Service Commissioners had asked for extra work from the Civil Servants, and the Civil Servants , had cheerfully un. dertaken that extra, work. He thought the,present Government was bent upon reducing the public chargeSj just as it had showed 'its courage. in insisting on an increase in the revenue, apart from borrowing. As to _ the local loan, it would bo unpatriotic to go on the London market!, t The Bill was passed l without further discussion. PUBLIC REVENUES AMENDMENT. The Public Revenues Amendment Bill (No. 2) was: received, from tho, House, put through all Stages- and. passed. . \ TRADE AND COMMERCE BILL. The Regulation of Trade and Commerce Amendment' Bill (No. 2) was received from the House, and read a nxst time. : , • On the eecond reading, _ The Hon. SIR FRANCIS BELL said that he proposed to insert a new clause in Committeo to allow the interchange, of duty-free and duty-paid stock, ihe amendment was proposed at the suggestion, 'and in the interest of; the holders ' of stocks. They were allowed to mix them,' and change-from one stock to another, so that stocks need not be kept ill absolutely separate buikmigs. The Bill was put through remaining . stages; and passed with amendments. marriace amendment bill. ' The Marriage : Amendment Bill was put'through Committee, with ■ amendments suggested' by the Statutes Revision Committee. One amendment provided that in the case of a marriage of any member ;of the Expeditionary Forces the Registrar may issue a, certificate or marriage immediately upon the applicant mailing a declaration where either of the'parties to 'the intended _marriage ■ might reside, and notwithstanding that they might reside in different districts. Tho amendment; makes the delay, of three' days unnecessary. A further amendment provided that where, a mm-- " ister celebrated a marriage ho should ' immediately forward a copy of the entry to the Registrar-General. ' Van The Council-rose at 4.40 p.m. till 2.30 p.m. to-day. \