FINANCIAL DEBATE

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2556, 2 September 1915, Page 7

FINANCIAL DEBATE

DISCUSSION OP TAXES RESUMED . ; A LABOUR MEMBER The Financial Debate was- resumed a >'■' 4.40 p.m. . / - Mr. J. M'COMBS (Lyitetton) said hi " thought: there,-were'certain clauses ii the National Registration Bill of whicl the House should not approve, clausei which' had no parellel in the Imperial or Canadian, or Australian legislation '■' He approved of the criticism of the Bil , made by the Attorney-General of. Nen South Wales. Referring to the Budgel proposals, ho said that ho failed t< discover'any basic principle whicj the Treasurer had followed.. .It seemed thai ' he had taken a little tax here and 1 a little tax .there, but not according tc any : definite plan. Nor could he fini any evidence that ■ the'' Minister Lad sought to got his revenue' from "the : 'big m'au." On the contrary a considerable amount of revenue' was to be taken . from the people by increased oharges foi : important public services. -He was sorry lie could not congratulate the Finance Minister on his Budget. Ho wa6 sorry to note, that the Government had no proposals for dealing effectively with the cost of livinc problem. He scoffed at . the claim that tho - Government were "out _ after the man with . money," .pointing to'the proposal to tax kerosene, i He feared that the increase of the postal chargos would not increase the profits ■ of the Post Office, but would - rather .tend to reduce them by restricting the juse made of "s the Post, OlGco .by the ' people. He'.- criticised. adversely . the 'taxes on motor.spirit and kerosene. Curtailing Expenditure. j .Mr. G. WITTY (RiccaTton) said that yas_ far as the Budget went it was very [fair. He commented on the small sur- \ plus in the Budget, and on the fact that lover £2,000,000 extra would have to.be found next. year. ■ While the country was 'Curtailing expenditure, what -was: the (Government doing? It was for the Government to curtail expenses in various He hoped the National - '. Cabineit in its advances to settlers would l-lend to the smaller man as much as.pos-i-sible. He)thouglt some.;textile expert • should be associated with the Minister jof Defence to see into the clothing of the : troops. - Ho was,afraid there had baen .'too mach exploring, inl this direction, ■and it was time was stepped. Citizeno' .Defence Corps should also get more re- ) cognition: Dealing with taxation :he de- * sired to; know' why: town, lands were exempt altogether. As the land tax was not a "bursting up'-' tax,'the. town: lands . should bear an equal amount.. Mr/ ; Witty ' .said that he was glad Lieutenant-Colonel R. H. Rhodes was being, sent, to Egypt,' but he thought ' someone from their side of the House might also be sent. Dealing with.Ous- , toms taxes, he said he had no objection to them, so long as they were on lu-xurios, but they should l not he on necessities. It was questionable whether ' i the increased postal rates would bring in : extra revenue, for tho experience had ■been that .."ho revenue' inoreased when the rates were. low.ered., . As to beer : duties, he. wanted to see an equitable tax. . Why should people in Auckland ■get off with' -less than the people in the '■ south? ~ I Sir Joseph Ward : That is not so. ( Mr. Witty: Everyone knows that the | beer in the north is light beer,' and that !in the south heavy. That means the t taxes are ; playing into the hands of tlie-north. . Sir Joseph Ward , said that' as a matter of fact one of the largest brewers in the south had stated to the Contrary. I Mr. Witty further said that the-tax mineral waters was not going to hit ; the non-alcoholic drinkers, for it was the .hotels that used, most of the mineral. waters.. The tax on cheques, and death duties should be on a sliding scale. A heavy impost should be. put on: tho .. large estates, especially when the money j went out of the country, and where no provision was made for charities.' He adversely criticised the tax on kerosene and petro], - and wanted to know. why racing was the only sport taxed? Picture theatres and, theatres. should be taxed. A §d. tax on a sixpenny picture show ticket would be fair. A tax . might also be paf on cigars, and he would put a,very heavy tax on cigarettes. An attempt should .also be made to get to tho'bottom of the cost of living problem. -. "A Budget of Timidity." C- A. WILKINSON (Egmont) jsaid that ho thought Ministers should understand that members, were entitled jto friendly; criticism of the Budget. If i they looked cardfully, into tho proposals j they found they were faced with a fallI rag: revenue, • and . a heavy deficiency. • ! He estimated that the country would find sinking fund and interest for £7,000,000: of war loans this year, rhat was his own estimate, : but there was no doubt! that there would'he a big dehciency. Surely when there was .great necessity for economy, they might /have expected some startling proposals ■ ™ retrenchment. But what did they j 7u „ An increase. He claimed that . the Budget was a Budget of : timidity, [ . and did not show evidence of strong , statesmanship'. It was said that it ; could not be produced by one party, but j required tho resources of both. In face jof that he still said' that it did not 1 come up ft; expectations. Curtailment of expenditure would bo necessary in the future. Thoy did not know yet the extent of the crisis they had to • race, and therefore some attempt at retrenchment, as had been dono in tho past, should bp carried out.' The coun■ll Wai j ! "8 to Parliament for a lo'oi a au 6xam plo in economy. In 1007 of a million pounds was saved by retrenchment, and surely 'a million could bo saved to-day. There wore scores of men in tho Government servico receiving very high salaries. Any amount getting from £300 to £ °?° P cr far. They could afford a / reduction of 5 per cent., and those gotting over -000 a ten per cent, rcducon V flos ® w high places and tho ' members themselves might help. . Various State Departments might be , curtailed. He. was quite certain the farmers, as, a whole, would.not have any objection to the taxes put on them, but he objected to'the farmers having to make income tax returns. Many j

would have to make the return who did not have to pay an income tax. Very few of the small farmers .could make a profit that could bo taxed. The spirit and beer taxes were inadequate, and he thought the Government would do well to givo way to tho wishes of tho House and double the beer tax. The aerated water tax was ridiculous. ■ Why not. tax tea. and other articles if they wanted to got' at tho non-alcoholic consumers ? The kerosene tax was altogether excessive, and tho Government would do well to drop tho taxes on mineral oils altogether. Monopolies such as the sugar monopoly should be looked after by tho Government. Ho also favoured an increased tax on cigarettes. As to railway rates, instead of an allround increase, there should Bo a ro•t view of the tariff' rates. "Ho considered that generally the taxes were heavy, h but the' country oould bear them; the only complaint was to the incidence of Q taxes. State enterprise might bo adr vanced; a State tobacco monopoly (j might be created, and a State note is- . sua established, r This country was alB . ready up against monopolies, and "these r monopolies would get stronger" "as the g years went on. and the country projp cressed. - Some day they would have to be controlled, and it would be easier to 'control them now than'at any time in _ the future. In conclusion he said be was sure that the country was determined to sec the war through at whatever, cost, and that tho peopls would bear their grief with fortitude. More Land Tax? ' Mr. J. ANSTEY (Waitaki) said he approved of much that the member for Ejgmont had said, and especially with' ' his statement that he feared the pro., posed now taxes would not produce sufcient revenue for the country's'requirements. He was of opinion that the Government- made a great mistake in i not imposing some additional taxation ' last year, to make provision for the ( inevitable increase in expenditure. He L condemned "the tinkering, muddling t way" in which the Government had ( dealt with the wheat supply problem, which had resulted in bread rising to 1 the enormous price of lOd. per 41b. loaf, j A Government which allowed bread to . soar to this "price, while the producers of , the country had sold'their wheat at from , 35., 6d. to 4s. per bushel, could not I claim to have managed .things successfully. Mr. Massey: AVhat about tout proposal to export? .w Fi Anstey said the position now was that nobody knew where we were. It was not known absolutely whether there was a surplus in the country or not, but the facts should be discovered, and if we a surplus we should export it.. He objected to the tax on petrol ?nd kerosene as being chiefly a tax on industries and the necessaries of 1 life. .Ho himself was a farmer, a payer - of land tax and of mortgage tax, and ha did not think that .under the present proposals the payer of land tax and mortgage tax was being asked to pay a fair share. As to the addition Jo the graduated ,land tax he was of opinion that the' tax would destroy itself. The, real object of the graduated land .tax was not to produc® revenue, but to burst up estates, and if; the tax produced revenue it jvas a failure. He thought we should alter our graduations _for the imposition of this tax. He did not anticipate tliat the Finance Minister's estimate of £250,000 a year from income tax on farmers would be realised.. 16. his opinion the amount would, not be nearlv ??,J ari = e - Also the tax would he very, difficult to collect, Very few farmers kept any books that would bo at all" useful, and it would' cost a great deal to collect, the tax. EVen if the farmer kept looks there were many ways in which; profits could be concealed. He would like to see the income tax exemption reduced from £300 to £100, • allowing further, exemptions, to, married ea ?> £75 in respect of his wife ,and £25 for every child.' • Trentham Matters. r Dr. .THACK3JE (Christchuroh East) said that the Budget had been put forth for the matter of defence. He took the opportunity of dealing fullv with Trontfcam matters, and extolled the part taken _by himself in getting'the reconstruction! of thecamp. The initial mistake made was in not putting in a railway siding. That had now been done, a -? /Mother wis© step was in making the General Manager of Railways chief of the railway transport. He took exception to the Trentham Commission's finding that the cerebrospinal' meningitis outbreak had not been started at the camp. They still needed better provision at the camp for washing; fou r ' or five hundred tepid showers were necessary.' "Let us give our boys health and power," he said, "for there is no doubt that they are going to be a, final factor, in the war when they enter Constantinople." Passing to another matter he said that the National Cabinet should think of the , magnificent manner in which the women of this country had stood by their country in every need. The National Cabinet could do something for them. There were, he continued, too many surgical operations in this country, and the Government might give some attention to the matter. 'Ho called on the new Minister of Munitions to see that there was no. more "graft" or "farming" in connection with the supplies voluntarily given to our boys. ' He also appealed to the-Minister of Education to make our system of education more technical; let the children ■' adapt themselves - to the future they thought best for them.' _ Mr. J. H. ESCOTT (Pahiatua) moved ! the adjournment of the debate. The House rose at 11.11 p.m. till 2.30 p.m. to-day. • .1