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Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1239, 22 September 1911, Page 2

THE MOKAU INQUIRY. EVIDENCE OF UNDER-SECRETARY FOR NATIVE AFFAIRS. MORE ABOUT TRUSTEESHIP. The Native Affairs Committee continued tho Moknu Inquiry yc.Merday, Mr. W. T. Jrnniiigs pre.-iding. Other members pre-f-piil- were: Sir Jus: Carroll, the Hon. A. T. Ngnta, Dr. To Itangihirnn, and Messrs. ■W. H. Hemes B. Dive, and T. Tarata. Mcsw. W. F. Mnsiey and J. Jones attended. Thus. 'William Fisher, Under-Secretary for Native Affair?, was tho first witness called, no staled that the Mokau Block fir't came under his notice on Deccm- • ber 12, 1910, and described the formal piocecdings which led up to fcho meetincs ' of assembled owners at To Kuili, and to the issuing of the Ordcr-iu-Council which authorised the alienation of the Mokau Block. To (he chairman: Ho doubled whether the ■property was worth more than 'Jos. per neiß lor settlement purposes. Tho minerals were not worth very much. Tho ircading of the blork would cost between .£20,000 and .£311,000. Ho'had not been approached by parties interested in the transaction, fave that Mr. Dalzicll might have called upon him, as aeent Jor Lewis, in reference to tho issue of the Order-in-Council. To Mr. Ngata: Ho knew nothing of the block being offered to the Government by the Natives. He became aware of the arrangement under which ilr. Bowler was to act as trustee on April 26, 1910, , when he received a letter from Mr. Bowler covering the agreement with the company, and noticed that Mr. Bowler had been substituted for the Public Trustee. Witness wrote to the Native Minister drawing attention to this alteration, and stating that he wos not very clear as to how the arrangement was going to work. Tho Minister gave instructions that the Solicitor-General should be consulted, and tho latter reported:—"l eco no objection to Air. Bowler acting as trustee." 'Witness conveyed ■ this information to Mr. Bowler, and mentioned Hint it seemed to him necessary that some remuneration should be given to the person holding tho trust. A remuneration of .£75 to .£IOO per annum and expenses should be credited to the board for its work. Tho Chairman: Is it a thing generally observed in tho public service for an ollicial to act as trustee? —"No." Do you know of any other cose, in which an ollicial acts as trustee, —"Not in my Department. The payment did not go into Mr. Bowler's pocket. Under the Civil Service regulations he had to pay it into tho public account." Mr. Dive: And then you pay it to him? —"No; that is a matter .for Cabinet to decide." To Mr. Ngata: This was not the only caso ho knew of in which an Order-in-Council had bicii issued authorising alienation. lib knew of several. In two or three eases this procedure had been followed in transactions affecting large areas of poor classes of land. Orders had also been issued to permit tho alienation of several isolated blocks in the Auckland district. To another question, witness replied that the question of Mr. Bowler's acting as trustoa was submitted to Cabinet, but that the question of, his payment was referred only to the Native Minister. Tho ChairnWn: The whole thing is in order. Tho question is whether it is desirable. Mr. Dive nsked witness whether he thought that the provisions of the last Native Land Act in reference to limitation had been exceeded in this cose. Witness replied that a similar i«suo was under review in a Supremo Court case which had not been determined. To. Mr. Horries: Mr. Bowler had instructions from the Native Minister; through, tho Department, to call tho first meeting of assembled owners. He did not know of any other caso in which this procedure had been followed save in cases whore the Crown was interested. A value having been once settled by the ValuerGeneral, '■'.tho. board, had no right to,.dispute it. He knew nothing of 'any monoy having been advanced to the Natives by the Government on the security of (ho Block. He had thought that complications might possibly arise from..Mr. Bowler acting'as trustee. The Solicitor-General was asked to advise as to the legality, and not as to the desirability of Mr. Bowler so acting. Tlie latter had to transfer' the fee-simple as instructed by the board, in regard to limitations of area and so forth. He could not eoo any possibility of a conflict between the interests of tho company and thoso of tho board. In the event of such a conflict arising, Mr. Bowlor would have to consider the interests of the board. In the present ca?o be saw no objection to a Government officer being placed in this position. If the company did not carry out the condition? the board had power to extend tho time or carry out the work itself. Mr. Bowler would do this as trustee. The- proceeds from the rale of the first part of tho block would provide means to carry out the rest of the work. To Mr. Massey: Ho assumed that tlio .minerals were not takon into account when tho block was valued. He was satisfied that tho block wheui roaded and settled would not ba worth more than .£70,000. Time would show whether ho was right or tho people who bad paid ,£IOO,OOO for tho property. The company had placed the block in Mr. Bowler's hands to be sold, minerals and everything. The company had nothing more to do with the minerals. Mr. Massey: It is his duty to sell tho block, as instructed by the company, subject to the provisions of the law?— Yes. There is nothing to prevent members of the company buying areas of two or three thousand acres?—No, the minerals in any subdivision would become tho property of tho purchaser if he could make tho necessary declaration in camplianeo with the limitation provisions. Witness said he did not know of any advances being made to tho Natives on account of an intended purchase by tho Government. He did not know of any reason why the Government should not have purchased the block. Mr. Massey: Do you know tint a Eec- ' tion of the. Native Land Act allows tho Government to take over the leasehold ■ interest in such cases as these?— Yes. l'lic Government could go to the CoinpenfriHon Court for assessment after purchasing tho leasehold interest. They could havo had the leajo determined and compensation paid, and all the difficulties removed?—l could not say that. So far as the position o f the title is concerned, the difficulties would havo been removed. Several other Orders-in-Council havo been issued to permit those concerned (o get over tho limitation provisions?— There have , been thirteen ca-ses for a certainty, if not more, since tho passing of tlio Act of mO9. Witness added that the areas, dealt with ranged from one acre to 8000 acres. The 8000-acre block was of poor land.situated in the Rangitoto district. It was valued at about Vs. Gil. per acre. Do- you know of any other ense where a speculator has been allowed to purchase a big block of Innil in (his wnvr—When they apply to us for an Ordor-in-Comicil wo don't know that (hey aro speculators. Is it customary to issue Orilers-in-Coun-cil to enable speculators lo purchase in the way that Mr. .Lewis purchased this Mokau-Mobakatino block?—l am not going tn say that Mr. Lewis is a speculator. I dnn't know of niiy oilier case. Mr. Ngata: There has been no other case like Mokau in. the Dominion. Sir .lnmc.s Carroll: It will stand out by itself for all time. • ° Mr.Massoy: ]s it a fact lhat the salary to Mr. Bowler as Iruslce will bo paid in addition (o his ordinary salary? Witness said he did not know what Cabinet intended to do. Mr. Maspoy: 1 think you said that Mr. ]sn\v]er would receive travelling expenses? Witness replied thai; any (ravelling expo' *>s would be charged diiectlv lo the block. Mr. Maspey: Don't you (hink (hat Mr. Bowler has been placed in an awkward position?—! think (he brst thing was dono under the cimims'lances. Don't you think tho best thing would have been for the (iovcrnmeiH to acquire the block?—fn that case (hero would have been no end of trouble and worry later on. Th.'ft is indefinite-?— The Government would havo bron put (o (ho (rouble of KoiiiK lo tho Assessment Court and getting ihe land ,=oilU\l. I* it m>l. rather a reflection <in tho De. parlmcnt to say that they could not havsettled the bud as expeditious!}- as a company of speculates?—l d<n't think I should l)o asked In comment on (he ailmiuistrjtiou of the Lands Department.