THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 645, 23 October 1909, Page 7

THE HOUSE.

-PUBLIC WORKS'AND LAND SETTLE- :■[::. ;.•■;>.- l-.^v^MENT,;.,:;,-- v...'/;•-" ";•;';■ ''.'STATEMENT- BY. PRIME .MINISTER. ; ' ■'I Bill intituled the lid to Publio Works and land Sottloment Bill was introduced by GovefnorVMeSsagewhen tho House met yesterday afternoon. It provides for tho raising of a loan of one arate « per cent The money Ha proposed to be allocated as follows:-?- ■:;,»; __■'-,; ■ respect pf;railways--;., : ~, a / m Construction of 'railways ■ ~.........>..;... £100,000 Additional rolling-stock for open lines, -;.--;.-. '■■■ arid such otheriworks and .purposes; : ~ '■in-connection therewith as may bo .'-. . . authorised ;' ••-••••>•—■."•——•• i """""'j .' " ' '2. ; 1n respectibf land settlement and.. ■-.. .•■„ :':>: goldfields development- •; *.-• ..., , ■.:.: "' The construction of roads; tracks, and ...... ..bridges for the purpose, of opening,..,., , . i up,:back, blocks,:., dovoloping;.,gold- . . fiSlds. and sucln other,. ™™SjJ™ ■ ■.purpose.? -in-connection therewith. - _ ■:as'may beauthonsed ~......••■"•»•■■••- ?™>™ '<£ In; respect of; other public works....-: 400,000 Mr. Massoy:Asks About; Finances., ,Mr^"MASSEY^in'Committed as , ; a Whole; asked whether the Prime Minister, intended to provide the House with the> necessary: financial before .taking the Bill. £ho. House seemed: to .have got-into. a .veryextTaortoary position.;- It was true there- was certain; informotion before the House when a Loan Ml was nassed during the short session, but moro.inCtiHoiM ;be 1 givenJbefore.the present, loan 'proposal was considered. It was h s vew that as much information;as, possible : sho i d before :members:beforc,they;wero asked, to support a loan, During the present.session the House :had -had. little or no-.information in connection >ith -towu»s.;;-. full details wUh reference > the _ramnpf the IZnlin had not been : given, Sad not. been Hold what was tho term^of the,loan,.or (L had'been 'suggested in .some, quarters) /whether the; :mbnoy : :w&slTins^^^

Prime'■'Miniiiw-ih Reply. ■"-;..(-• *Tho PRIM? MINI STER.-.reforred. to'the,«•the Treasurer in regard to. matters of the kind., which 'some people ,thoughthe: should.- It bould ;not-.bßi Kpected,that he,would. give; in-, fbrmatiou in.'regard w:progrcss. The ■Bill was not being, introduced[because tho country was short of; money,'.-tat because of the future requirements inTefiardij tho'Publio end-of.September next at theveryearliest.',The general Snantialposition was' pkeed ■ beforoV Par jamenl; durmg. the desirable ' - to'//'keep ■: -..itho- : Loan, am ■pruning financial matters which dehrable -Now Zealand^:other.countries, should carry their,;financial;Rations; ah ■was not-going- to- -wait .another, fortnight ,-beInso, the money should be .raised now": Under the.BiJ . itwas proposed to. : bor-row--only - the million , sterling.' /Unless -con-. .tinuwUSir Joseph) Unfair criticism was tci bo levelled -ho ■ did not,- see; ;why the.. Bill. should notboput through all its stages that day. -. •'.Mr;'Mossey: .That:wonld.be.most.outr ? Beous. - -Sir Joseph went on to say that ; he did not, howdver; propose ;tohave.the BJU put through ask, that th'e ; 'second- reading-be;; taken/on 1u.05day.,:,..1f he did not'adopt;-that-course,, it:.was vnotimr iprobable that-some' motive would bo; attributed to : him." When the. Financial Statement came down, members would bo given : a ; full, opportunity to-discuss mattors'of finance..,, ..,'-,, ',

What 'About .the Last Loan? ,:■ :,.:■,:■ v;;:. ;C-.:':,T ', ; 'Mr. V; HERIiiES : said 'ha' agreed:,,that .-where; financial .'operations :wer'e' 'in progress, ;it;,was. • unreasonable ! for ' the'House;to. ; expect. full information. '■ But what about last jear 6 loan? TheiHouso had nqt had full informahou :in: regard to -it;' .For'; instance,' he wished .-to, 'know the-'circumstances, under;, which .portion. . of it was- 3i per ; cent.',stock. V,, ■' :Si r Joseph: Do you take exception; to. it?.,-.'. ■'•' Mr.:'Herries:.';lt looks-;peculiar; without: in- . formation :on .the point; .. ,'-'. : :",?'■ .J' :. .v ; ~Continuing,-.Mr.: ' Herrics' said .'that' since, .Sir Joseph-;had been ''treasurer, the >Houso l had : not • been ■ placed in;possession of'as full information., ,in : regard -to:ioans:as was the, case during ;the ' term'.of: office .of; his , predecessor;. 'In , previous years the House was informed how. every . penny -.was':iaiscd,: : and .how.' it was expended/,! .Then,: ; again,'members rwore 'to know, ■ what :was,'iho,financial,position, iniconnectionwith:the. 'September,, quarter..' Members' should be told the .'expenditure, in connection .with' ,'public'.works,' also -'details in 'regard: to • ways arid', means' as. on-'September '.'.-.:• v.;.'.' . Information Not ;Yot Available;':', 'Sir-Josoph said'.he: always'save .information when it was properly available.- The .details in.regard-to. the last loan would be, furnished when! all the '.transactions were, completed. . ; . Hr. 'Massey:.[Why .is -that?' .; ■:■.■;; '.; ■" .. ":■' Sir '■< Joseph replied,that. the.-' scrip in. connec-, tipn- with the .conversion of - certain, stock >. was just being.'ftnally; completed.in? London. : - -It ■was, ■ therefore,.; inippssiblo if or him: to go into; the matter.: '{•:}''&:'■:':■ : '' > ■ V,':.'-' : - Mr. Massey:i.Not; having information -there-.seems-to- be : ; something .pe-. ouliar'about, the last loan.;,' ..•:■.: f Sir- Joseph: How peouliar?.;,-v .'.■••.--V 1 • ■'•■ '■ '- . Mr.'Masseyi..-.Well; .wo'havo had no official information ih.regard.to.it.; :- >Tho Bill, .was .then read a-first time, and the second reading fixed'' for Tuesday, next. v

'-BUSINESS OF THE SESSION.

■i THE GOVERNMENT PROGRAMME A ' " The PRIME .MINISTER, the 'sitting of th'o'Hous» yesterday, said he would indicate, the; measures which/the Government'proposed '■■ to ask Parliament.to adopt this:sessio'n.;VThere would,''ho.-said,, be'"legislation 'dealing with'. •pVoposais. for' obtaining money; and"advancing it both to settlers and.to local bodies.'■'■•■'■■ <!A'incmbnr: What about, Natives? •" ' , :.■ Sir: Joseph': They. will .'come under ,the headr; ine; ;settlcrS, ; ."i^: , ;: : - : v l /:^ ; - '7'';".,.:, • .Mr.i.Massey: They should be.put,in the same position as other settlers. ■~"..' •' .. ■'":•; ■ Sir Jorcph /said-,he did not 'know'whether ho .would bo .able to do so, but if it, could be done the Bill would l>e circulated that evening. Then there was the Land Finance Settlement .Bill," which '/ would, bo ..circulated that' "Mr: Massey: Is-it the same as the.Bill, of last' year?-'- '/.'■ ■.;'■'•: "'■, ■'.'/ '..' Sir Joseph: .Practically.. ■'.'. Mr,:-Masscy:. Wo will help .you.;, to , put, it through.' . '■:"■ ' ' Sir. Joseph "next said it was trusted, that/the; NationaV Annuities Bill would be passed. It would, if possible, also bo circulated that day! Separate Defence .Proposals...'..''■;. ■ Proposals connected with .financo.'matters would be submitted. For the convenience of members,, "■■ he' L .would bring'-,, down apart from' the measure dealing . : with,, general defence proposals a Bill,' .asking 'Parlin.. ment to give the necessary/.,.authority for./the payment'of. the, Dreadnought. WTien that Bill,was introduced he would also take the opportunity of making a.'etatement in reference.to the Defence Conference! Ho would ; inform .the: House ; as fully possible/what had been ;ilone ai.it, and also givo information which'would be.-of general interest. /At tho samo time'it-would be indicated how the. cost bf r thefvd^l-wos'to/be-provided;/, and VhowVjt ; 'wasVto;3be ; im'et.;. Another/, meneuro>hich 'it : . : 'was./. proposed. ■ to.'/ask. the House..to/ pass'';was - ari : 'amendmcntno';the lond laws-o£, too' coun- < h\v;< If thoHouse put its mindtcit; he be.

lieved the measure could be put -through; It was . being .introduced with the -. sincorcst, desire to- help to solve 'what was undoubtedly a- difficult problem.'; Ho would not anticipate the provisions of tho measure. ' : ■'■•.:: . i Mr. Massoy: Will it bo circulated at an early date?.. ' -. -. ■"■.- -',;Sir-Joseph: I can't say- when.'. ■■■:■ '■■_ .;...• •-',; Mr., Buchanan: Some time before it comes ok for discussion?. '.-'.'.:■.-:'•■ i-; Sir Joseph:- Yes. Liquor in tho King Country. .'■:';• The. Prime Minister . next indicated; that it !was proposed to ask the House to enact legislation'this session dealing with an important matter affecting tlie King .Country. .It, was connected with a licensing. matter.. (Hear, hear.) A difficulty had arisen, and it wa3 proposed to put -it right—to .enable v;hat was. the original intention of Parliament—that the views of the people of that locality-should bo properly expressed. .. .Mr. Massey: A poll? Sir Joseph: I don't want to give.any details to-day. ". j ■;■'■ ' ,'■■• -The Prime Minister (continuing) remarked that the Bills which it was hoped, would-be passed included one which.would remove, acause of complaint in connection, with tho mining industry. The Bill would contain 0, clause to strike out "miners'complnint" stop the medical examinations, of /workers employed . in : mines after they reached .the ago of, 60. years. It would remove what'was a grievance to somo extent ■to both sides. Another Bill on the list was the Hospitals and Charitablo Aid Bill. ■ .-.-• Position, of Other Measures. As soon as they hod been disposed of (con-' tinued Sir Joseph) other measures could be considered. - :Mr. Davey: What about the Harbours Act Amendment? . ' ■ r ..: '" ■ .-. _ ;Sir Joseph: It will be circulated, .but I can't say that it is one that is; going to be pressed. • . ..-'-.. . '■■.': ,Mr; Ell:. It ought to be. '.-. '•■Sir Joseph: I know it is.important. ;Impos : 'abilities'can't-be undertaken.. All other moasures will.have to como behind those which I have outlined. : It would be -a mistake to ovorload the programme. - - ; Mr.. Malcolm: Will there,bo an Electoral Act Amendment. Bill to secure the automatic purging of rolls? • '•..'■ '■; .• . - Sir Joseph:. I can't make off-hand statements

■ Mr Hogg has ; taken a seat, in tho House. as: far removed fromtho Ministerial ' benches as is possible ■ without going completely into tho Opposition quarters.. The cross indicates Mr.. Hogg.

on matters of this kind. The'matter of electoral reform requires careful consideration. I am not going to circulate proposed, amend: • ments to any measure piecemeal.. ..'What.is going to be doho will be doue before the end of; the session'. (Hear, hear.) : ... , Rights of' Private Members; - ;;::-' ■; ;,'; ■ ijlr. WUSSELL said he' would like' to /know whether the Government had considered v the advisablencss of curtailing the time for discuss-ing-private: members*- 8i115.".-Ho thought that attention: should; bo concentrated on -Govern-. ,'ment Bills. ..-' '-:/ r -■,••>/.•■■_■'■ •..'-. .., :■-:..- . Sir' Joseph that,,ho would ascertain tho'feeling of mombers on.-tho-point •' :; Mr.' Massey, on behalf .of- private mein- ! Ibers,' said ie-hoped :tho .Primp Minister,, would, ''hot' accept the' suggestion'maae by Mr:-Kus-sell. Tho' rigiits;, of private memborshad- already been' infringed sufficiently. .-;■ :..,:'■: ■•■' • "Sir Joseph said: that: as in -the past as much consideration would be jjiven private members as possible. ..; iiUND SETTLEMENTS; AND PROVIDENT V'"- : ; ".::-v'- '.-;'-' : :.FU.Nb:BILLS'..;-; ' The : Land' Settlements Finance.Bill and National Provident Fund Bill werei.received .by. Governor's Message-at 9 p.m; and: read a first t •time. In each.cose the second reading ■ was fixed for thVnextfitting.day. \ .. :-,:-; •i.V-; % :-■-;- -t-. HOSPITALS yBILLy:'.-.^';:^-L" ; ;, READ A SECOND.'TIME.: : -: - ;. '■■ '•'■ The Hon>G. 'FOWLDS, 'in moving ■reading of'the Hospital/and"Charitable.:,lnstitutions Bill, said that it, had becn.approved ■by-a representative conference -and- two- heads, of the Department. He would have liked; to go further; in the direction of■; amalgamating districts. With regard to charitable aid, the modern- danger .was iest wq,.should let -.our feelings make us too lavish., The information that : bad-been' collected by a royal commission in England, which'was not'available: for-the ■present Bill, might suggest,directions in which a further advance could be mado later, in the legislation of this-country. vKyer since the Spg,of the' in .New Zealand in 1885, the country dove oped enormously,-, arid for some ■' time it ; : .had- been.;felt,- on,allhands that it was desirablo to .bring, in. fresh legislation; to: regulate tho-expenditure under 'these -heads." , While ,the.,population -of -the _ 'country'had;doubled,.the,.expenditure.on i hos.. nitals and charitable aid had morei than trebled, which'.',■ should make' them , pause beforo in-, '•creasing-the expenditure'under these-heads. STthought the present 'Bill ;.would. provide more effective'machinery and n»™—.c.. Administration. The functions of the e, aid 'and hospital boards naturally overlapped, ind.ho thought it would bo a great advantage for'both functions to; be. carried out.by/one body, as was proposed by the.Bil. ml ion'of an elective for:.a"nommahve, basis; ; with regard to the appointment ■ of.. boards should bo generally approved,-and-would;' he : believed; give better results.:...: . -'■•' - Thrseparate insHtutiqns, which were now done away with, were liable.to be-conducted m an : toersive manner,- because, tho persons-con : trolling them were not responsible.to .any, con•stituoncy; with., regard, to ; the raising and expenditure "of funds. If the ..subsidies for hospital purposes were to - remain at the present amount, he thought that the should havo more control over; the; expenditure of these sums,: and that it should .ho ablo to secure expenditure in given directions when a fair case -for -tho expenditure was made out. •There had always been a difficulty with,regard to those .persons, who moved from.one

district to another,: and asked for. charitable relief.-. He'thought that the Bill would considerably improva tho position With regard to iixilig. tho responsibility of boards in those cases. Ho hoped that nothing in the nature of parochialism would bo. allowed to, jcopardiso the main principles of the Bill. , ~ . . Mr: MASSEY said ho was very glad that Parliament-was being given the opportunity .to roview.', this important subject. . As was .the case with .every other Department , of tho State, tho expenditure for hospitals and charitablo aid had increased very much in recent years. The increaso for tho last five years was nearly 90 per cent., and the time had como to insist on care and economy. He thought that the,amalgamation of boards and districts was. a good proposal, though it would bo strongly objected to by some districts. lip also approved tho combination of hospital and charitablo aid boards. He was not wedded to any particular system of election. What was proposed ,in the Bill • would be a very, great improvement on the present system in those districts where the Counties Act was suspended. A rather'objectionable feature was the frequent appearance of'that .mysterious person known as the Governor-in-Council, who was mentioned in the Bill scores of times, and was given a .wonderful amount of control: Ho approved of tho proposals regarding nurses for the baokblooks.. .- Provision might be added to' give troincd nurses opportunities of qualifying themselves as pharmacists. Mr. HANAN (Invercargill), reviewed the Bill in a favourable manner, and'stated that in his opinion the boards should be elected on a Parliamentary franchise. He thought that the people should do more in tho way of voluntary contributions. Mr. ELL (Christchurch South) said.that the Bill would give widespread and general satisfaction throughout the Canterbury district. He thought, however, that it went too far in depriving the board of the power of appointing the staff. If all local body elections were held on tho same day more interest would be takon by the public; He hoped provision would.be made for supplementing from the board's funds the work of philanthropic nursing associations. Mr.HOGG (Mastcrton) thought that the Bill must' generally commend itself both to members of the House and the community. The system of dual" management must naturally lead to a .want of financial control, arid the increased cost of charitable aid was only to bo expected from. such an imperfect system. Therp was a great absence of uniformity among hospitals, and this led to confusion.

-Mr/MIAEEN (Wellington East) considered that the removal of the overlapping' between hospital and charitable aid boards would be a great'advantage. Ho thought that the elector who had brains enough to elect members to that House ought to have brains enough to .elect', members to an inferior body. Ho condemned, the'disposition to regard the administration', of ..'charitable relief from tho stand; point of..tho giving of rilme.Nvhich left.-.tho persons assisted practically ■ where • they l , .were before' 'Further co-ordination should bo devised. between- the Puhlio,Health Department, local bodies partly concerned ' with •' public health, and the boards that would be appointed under this. Act., His hearty support would bo given toitho 'mon6ure.:'.. '■'■' ;•:.. Mr. HERDMAN (Wellington North) saidho. .ha'd','Suggested.;somo years ] ago that this important question should bo handled. by the Government. There .were various aspects of, tho. Bill rwhioh ■- might' require amendment at the committee stage, but broadly speaking-it would make for greater efficiency, and economy, and it would hnvo his hearty 'support. He thought that, tho introduction of the-Parliamentary' franchise would be an evil. There' were a number of gentlemen in the community, who took, an interest :in the administration of charitable aid' aud, hospital affairs, not • because they liked to 'contest, an election; or'for the honour' and'' glory which their position on • those, boards gave them, but because;. they. ,wero p'hilanthrbpic, and.cared to render,'.in : a gratuitous'way'.excellent services to tho c6mr mußitv."'.lf to: go through,elections ■on a .Parliamentary, frahchise,' they would not come forward: All sorts of influences vcould bo brought ,tb bear: upon the elections, and there would be an inferior class of representatives' compared-with those, now elected: Mr. Herd'ina'n, read -from the report of the : Poor.| Law; Commissioners in England m. support of his opinion..' . [~ '•'■•; '■■■■j,-... \ ' Mr. T. H. DAVEY (Chnstchurch East), objected to tho proposals,for the,election of members of the.boards, and'also to, some, of the provisions relating to the appointment of honorary, surgeons. - Otherwise, he. supported the measured •■ - , - . ' . :. Mr. -W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) expressed his approval of tho Bill. local selfgovernment proposed would, ho thought, result in' a reduction'of waste.' He, hoped-.that-thero *w6uld not be,so,-much interference with.the institutions by. the-Governor-in-Comicil as was, at presont provided for.. Some of tho:. clausesrelating to the granting of- relief seemed to him to bo unworkable or unfair. _• , -^. •I Mr"- J. - P.' LUICE (Wellington Suburbs) thought that in the past full value had not been received, for the money, expended. ..; He would give the, Bill all tho assistance in, his Mr. FIELD (Otaki) felt, that an alteration of the boundaries of the existing districts was absolutely necessary. , Tho true solution of the position would bo.'for the Dominion to constitute one district, or say two districts. If that were the -position, the' country; districts 'would:pay. : .just what was thoir.dues in the ' m Mr. ? 'EOSS (Pahiatua) thought that in tho establishment of the various districts, .community of interest should, be studied. -. - ; . '•' Mr.' C. , HALL (Waipawa), the amalgamation of the hospital and charitable aid administration. He thought the BIU would ,be received'with very general favour... . ■ Mr.' Heed (Bay of Islands, : Dr. Buck (Northern Maori), Mr. Stallworthy (Kaipara), Mr. Macdonald' (Bay of Plenty),.- and ; .Mr. Hine (Stratford)- also- spoke. . ■ •-'. ■• The second reading was agreed to on the voices, and the Bill was set down for committal On next sitting day. - The House then adjourned till 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday. ; .."•' ',';•'. \ ■';•'

"'.'A. deputation from tho . Citizens':Anti : Gambling Committee will. wait/on .the'Pnmo Minister-.on -Monday-/morning.' Its membera will urge ihc; suppression of /proprietary racing clubs, and thdlimitation of /race ■ days to tho number.: 'of ytetalisator ; r«rmit^!'^ailyi:Baferi,,^]:: ; 'vo;, ; ,v;' ;;J;>y';. ' :; ■';'.'" //^.-v. '-'■■'■''':'.The-''artist evidently".'• anticipates.' the',-conversion,,,pf.//tho'.. two Ministers. de> /oioted./ivjiose,partiality.;/for, ; ,"Tb.e/ Sport of.:Kmßßy/ ; iß,.common.knowledce,.- .-.,