THE COUNCIL.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 645, 23 October 1909, Page 7

THE COUNCIL.

PRISON REFORM PROPOSALS. ■ The f Council met at 2.80 p.m. ( :: Dr.-']?INDLAY> referring .to tie ' .Hon.'Ji-.E:' JenlcinsonV spcech of-tho previous ;• VrdayHsaid that ;it Was'.impossible ; t6 'know., where, j:' tis :'raillery .'ended ;iand rh&itef iousnejia began. He wai'iinolined to- think-tliat- the speech wasint«nd«lvm a spirit'of pleascntry. On behalf i'-v of thn-'Primo Minister, ho r&turncd .thanks for s};i)ofenc4; Co'nferencei'. i.Whcther.j his. scheme: to r,-' '•iAusfralia'.'Waai preferred; : iun-. thoiijht;. that:-;the;, work-.done rby the Prime Minister would promote that object *• !•' and;-('promoteit"' best, ;;.though v: there • might, be With'regard ;to':th'e Native'land :-:^Questign,'' r theiro 'qould .bSiho ruthless exclusion; i; ; .Uiel l e£Sire?not ''only/■;itireat{e , s. : 4*-^^ii»^^^>'Vbut'^;obli^Honi:;dex6lyinii : tipbn!:tho more , civilised race. : -He believed had been done to promote European ;.6ottlfrnient',- arid;that> more would yet' bo done, at'disjfas'. should I .:.''\-bo' i ''^Considered.' figures; /produced' -'.byMr'.' IgressT;had,:'been!, made; along, rig|it /lines,' in ■,re;ardyto;>' the /settlement;, of ; Native.', lands,. and ■■■£ mor«^v«>uld';yet' bo .done.. One of the greatest ■.'£ purposes of igovernmeni; was to. set' people "on --:; : the'Ja4Ui;'but : they.imust i ''.6eei clearly-what' was; VitheJgreat:'bar -/to.,.closer.-/settlement.' We had

i parted.''.Hvith'";the; great-bulk 1 of ■ the best viands; ;.y millions :bf 'acres .. were ;still'./held, in- great eV .>' tatte'rA'?'There: wns.-lcft;'a- considerable.. area of lands/ but in .quality it was: niimh ,inVJ.!.feri6c]t6,'the?enbrraous;arofts sHU held i;< laridbjpiers. 'i;>. Without ;;iplqu'dinjj the issue on '■-':';.'the 'tfuMtibn: of* tenure's,''th'e'chicf bar,to closer fW'settlcmki't/w^ •;'■- ■|,e^^^/lt ; C.?i steps -'of .Denmark-we should have -' to" induce-^' V r :-:or riitHtr; to ; compel,-for•inducement I .would'not largo landowners:'to yield; a'little ..the/country and, v-:'V:'aafadi^de"theii: > ■i:;.wsrai>mlling^;la'-'Sottle'[on' : them.: ■ Subdivision -by: a ; progressive' ;•'-. iand so','devised -as>:tO'bo generally 'effcc- . Sytive/Jv'He:'believed'.'thaty/the'-progressiveiland .! .:':;. tax Md assisted subdivision in New:.' Zealand,.but', j : i>. : -,if it did:not prove sufficient, thoy had the example E ;,;■.; of:Behmark,.to :show,;a:.morere£fective'-6olution.. •< ."vDr. endorsed■' the'r statements .'in" '] ..; ■;;:(. the to',/forth- i ?;V;,:;comingi.'-.: : legislation .V.tb.i..,- provide':'.for;;:'muni- \ vr; ■. cipali;ijiilks-, supplies, 1 ; jandVCexprosse'd j " :;;■; ing/Socialism;:had {not;'criticisedithis/proposal ' :■-. :0n.-abcpunt'"i6fr;its. s iunquestibnably.Socialistic: i It '.6im'ply,,revealed that'this .cry .'of i i.-'.vßocialisni.was' a : ho)loyr. political; cry. raised.as a ' :~;:^bog«y,ty;^,v;-;j ( :e ; .;•■; . ! L>'vSiafly4yeats : ago!waa 'iuiti(iuated,'ahd ; no' better j :- : ;-,; tbari^h'b *systeni!'6f :En|lfitioV.frp'ni ß iS6o;'to'aß7o. : ' •rf:.' ptheWcbuntries hail 1 ma'dbsprßgress^'ald'ng 'lines..'j ■: :■ ■:•: i-'oi ! '■■i-v coddlingWfbf V f it '/■ wasrV-not ', ■ ; /;.'the •:', at" all,:; but • tho; welfare #•;"of J'was -,; Constantly. v.!v:/sald '.'worb-jgoing .< to/make v.the j :-('-,j~-Bathv!pfcthe crumnal/p'asierand''increase 'crime.; j /'v, : :-'*&?irM^ ;tT;iwcißfe'and''reduce /'crime;,:: ;v;The>new method ..', ;;:,::-Komdjbe firsti.tp.pfbyent criminals,'secondly,,to ■;■;;:"" *efo^mflthem,'i-aia^.-thirdly, : ;. : ;.-.:-to.:permanently.incarcera.te tuetai-U v/itU'v;'.:;.',. ' &~:e'^&^&Jj'J*A?* : rl>"- ■'%&s•.'■%: -i':"-.'.!'.■!"':'.•'/'''-"-'■' ; i': : '".. ■• :; : tv4:.-TKo-pfoblbm in'Ne'wlZeaiaiici'was!bfigreater: •; :>::,::. i .' ;.?::.} .Yjctea;perspns',' of 'whoniV nearly.'3ooOhn'd.;been ' ■j;:i'. could,: ; :'■ ')&, byjjrpp'br >: sciontific:?treatmenf,.' be :• enormously :?.::; '; r, ,"v " :;//;, In iprbportion.bf,. recidivists, .or ■ J;; >.pris6riefs >>yhp' slipped/.bacK.'to ; their ovil. ways. ; 55,per:cejit., : :'and. -•': >. : . here;i l de'spitb:;ouf..bettbrlc'bnditibns;and:'the'a :';':':; 6'eriee!oflarge per cent -:In- ; ' ; r criminal ' •;l.';:.prb?edure,uthb:;tbtal!cbst'itb'.the:State of every- :;',.■'. ■ prisopfewas mohaNy-y^'or.. 'J!&o a year.-' •This ::,*;;/:was, loss :;to-thb;.State.",.: They should '.'-pilj'rovidejthatia.prisoncfcshould .not be released .: ::.;;:; : : ::;f)-;:-in ,ms;iowh .interests.-and>,those :of jso'ciety-;thai., ;: ; r:! i ;b.e ; shbu^'!:be;; : relcased.f;|,§^.;';^VV.;':^: : ■ \ ' ' ;:';. : V:invfetigations!that Vcbhsider'ablfe*proportion of' • of rtnoVcriininals : i-ii?;' werejjreally/ lunatics'^ should -bo : '■:; ■.-";,■ Begrbgated'- into"'a .'gaol ;bf: their'! own.' 'He-had ' Vv;;; in ; .the; gaoli'.whb'wore'.fitter for: a> :.;?j;.; ; : •' •': uhderVthe.present'sys- :. Vs/f ""tfyt&l criminnlVasyluin 'could;"hpwever," bb ;: :'.':i pro.yided:,withbut ibuilding'oi^expenseV : UThch' :i:.; ■t '■'S? !, 'f an * -6 rat le's;-accbrding:: to ■• good -.'conduct: ''A''.: : '^tß.K 'of:' good :''.::"'.:' i ? e ?' l y.'*^ r -.V 'dilJgencoi :i .-;ahd -self-improvement:. were ; ::W:,vs <! ! Kf':::' bl ' 6 ffl»^;s' on <«/ washing'floors/.plying tholpick" 'S'::'^*™'/' ; ';« v el,-:and.' i :doirig; the .same .work day a: '■''.-, oft«;:d«y,Mt; should that many.' ■;:- : K "'°, f ?M^' D ' en . V: er ? .'ttpable of i and in:.;:^,.du*tnal;ta be." dehad: committed ; ? .: : ,,;itMlf vto :> a ; farm; i in - the •; North" i-V;.; J .:l«ltttfdi'.where younger'meri'who 'had not "shown ■..':' :an Vincorngible;: -criminal! -nature % could' bo ' t-S :,™ r #s; a '. i>ll '-.branches t-.of. - agricultural'and :;. i :.;;/pastorab,pursuits,;,and in the trades .necessary k^V.;.'^vS n, i^' nl '* a^l ng. : :V..lhßtca'd-of.-Mnding. out wpuld.-go.-back :'to gaol- timo'-aftcr '■^'■■VfPZsW: oflSni to.sendibut 'men qualified to ■I-•■ ; '? u jM»lwns' on' fafm«,:.who" would thereafter .-, -.:; - ]t'ad-; : Mpnest-r;.and. respectable '.lives.': ':In -many v: was' ,;•:.:: employed;who; was:an ; cr^hvict.<iHo had a 1;,:,.:. ;,:,.:. .;,wiya : 'ffelt that .'the 1 " man f who/wrote'in'"that ;'...,- vjnalinilO'.'should '.be'.'kicked/:;:.(H«ar,';hear.) ! -He ■:> -.haaialways'.found ■:> that'these?ex-cohvicts ? had :'/":.,:b'eeh - ;wprking;industriousry.'ih sbme-xases they wives- 'and .families, for ..'-:. I,: eevflri ;brJeight , years! v .'The man : who had fallen; V;?::;;'an'd':*as^strusgUng:; ; tb';.r'egain: his.;footing in' ... : ; -Vsocre'tyiahbuld..be .helped,'".to, do.-so. ■r.-V.-'■■: ;,:;;: Employers ;':• y-i}\': .'"; ';:;. .' ;:,,'<■ ;'ftManj'employers': in: ■*';( i.vtq; K6lp;ihem : -inf that direction.'''-The Salvation •.:";"T'i Armyisaid that many'^^"employers;were willing :' l i :::,,; : :tp..tak«iex;prisoners:.wh<);.w*re specially recom- ;:.; ".'mended.byvthe:Gpyerhra.e'nt'.or the Army.' The ;'; ;^}orimlnali ! pn 'whpm^'/ibjfeibrand.,of :.;:'.. r'placedvwhen. ho emerosmfrom'gaol'could havo. : :before;hiuii except rb'no':of crime.' f".:":^The.'jM,he^^ :;:.«->enormqusly;in 'England;; and 'elsewhere, -.would VK::;i:;flSsist!)nen;who ihad ...been' in- prison':to :'get on 5/:;';::. their; ; ife?t:'.again.: : . So 'long as: this treatment :::"'.'■'was.Jiibt'over, generous- and: did: not interfero :v;::i;,with';yfreb-iabour.iihe ;felt ! sure, the : .working ;:::^;Kpbople : iwould;deai;witti'it as a proper, measure. intrb(|ubing ''into the /prisons \>V\i':^^oe'rwiV l in<lustries,..the.'pr,bdnbt."ib£:w-hioh. could :.' ; i:: ; -,be usedibyGovcrnment.'institutions', theycould i/.'.'reubatantially.reduco:the;cost pf prispns tp tho . ; ,::-,:conjatry; : 'vHo '.believed""al«)•;':that :.it■:':would bo %^KB':Tyite;jprecau'tibnWin;i:proper ; to/givo a >3:-: v priSßiie'r < :yv;':.-tsbat'Jpt(ri»se,V6binething;:in ; thn*;way:bf.'money '^'^fpr.ithbistippprt/ofrhis^wifoahd^c ';)..:,:.could';divide/;throughout:;the; prisons'."the" cost- ;:/.,' ;Stnte^ : stipulate, tho. ■-:"ampiirit; bf. Iwbrk-ahyjprispner.:cbui(l-:do.: without ; j ;/fXS-wife;' r ahd'?family;:.that;,effprt ; !.is ■!V' ! rX'wo:^«!l/givb.;'ybiir.a' r ;'. ; contributetb.that.vDur.Epsft^:'rfia

matter "had been ■ fuUy considered; by the Governmout,' and he hoped: to 'submit it, to the for 'further consideration/ ':;■: Lands? .■■: ■-.'■"*; ■ The:Hon..T. KENNEDY: MACDONALD said that for forty'yeara they had been endeavouring to. effect R proper settlement of the. Native land question, and they were.as far off ( that object as ever.■''. He. did not think that the question would be settled on tho lines laid down in the Speech. The Natives should not bo treated as. children requiring protection; they were fit to compete with Europeans in every sense. He believed that no Native Land Bill vcould be eatisfactory which did not provide that the Maoris should havo:a far greater liberty than they had now, that they should be able to transfer their lands- themselves without the. intervention of a European agent, and that the- present, system of treating the Natives-as. if they wero. babes in. should .'cease.-■■ Mr.. Mncdonald urged that. New Zealand: was the best country in the world,j for tho small man, and that care would be taken to givothe small man a. better chance ' lion. '':&% LQUGHNAN Replied, at some -length, ..and the Address-in-Reply : was ° g ThVco'unei'l adjourned^at 4.40 p.m. until' I ■■Wednesday- - next. .-;■'.