PARLIAMENT.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 306, 19 September 1908, Page 7

PARLIAMENT.

ARBITRATION BILL IN COMMITTEE. SLOW PROGRESS. STRIKES AND LOCK-OUTS. - f.- , DEBATE ON PENALTIES.' Tho Council yesterday had a suggestive discussion on .tho workers' dwellings policy. The Manavatu Railway Purchaao Bill was road a second timo, and tho Christohurch Sanitation Bill was still further amwided. Tho House in tho afternoon received the Land Committee's report on the Woodward Street transaction, to it had been referred for investigation. At the Prime Minister's suggestion, discussion of tho report was postponed to a future date, this course being adopted to' enablo' members to acquaint . themselves with tho details of tho oridenca. Going in Committee the' House took up the thread of tho previous day's work 011 the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act Amendment Bill. Four clauses had boon passed on Thursday. Clause 5 provided food for debato for tho whole of yesterday .afternoon. The clause'dealt with the penalties for strikes and lock-outs, and -the Labour sympathisers in the House, led by Messi-s. Poland, Barclay, and Hogan, endeavoured to secure amendments "that would ease the burden of strike fines in certain cases. Tho whole question vas fully thrashed, and interesting side . issues, wero' introduced. . Finally tho Minister's proposals were carried. Debato nest centred round the pains and penalties proposed to be placed upon aiders and abettors of strikes. A "gag" W ftrub-clauk of a minor character raised , protests in' favour of freedom of tho press, and the sub-elause -was allowed by the Minister to go by the board. After this stage progress, became more rapid, and at 12.45 a.m. five clauses had been passed as the result of tho day's work, and tho end of Part I of the Bill reached. The Minister resisted the requests of tho Opposition for an adjournment, and the sitting continued until 1.30 a.m., when progress was reported, eighteen clauses having been adopted. THE COUNCIL. WORKERS' DWELLINGS.

The Council mot-at 2.30 p.ni. yesterday. The Hon. T. KELLY (Taranaki) moved:— "That_ there be laid on the table of- tho Council a copy of. the specifications provided Iby the architect for tho construction of workers', "dwellings, in Coromandel Street, Wellington—viz.', Ist, of wood, 2nd, wood internal- and concrete external —to enable the . Council to properly estimate the cost and scope of the practical carrying-out of the , policy of housing the workers of the 'Dominion." Tho mover said a class of houses should bo provided for workers who could not afford the rent that must be charged for such houses as tho Government had erected. He suggested that Edison's system of moulds, 'which could be used for any number of houses, should be inquired into. .The Hon. J'. BARR (Canterbury), in' seconding the motion, said the standard'maintained hitherto should not be lowered, but economy should bo effected by the purchase of larger blocks of land and. the employment of experts ■ in concrete,-Construction. He hoped the tenement system, which was highly-conducive-to-the'.formation 'of. slums, would nevcr.be introduced in.New Zealand. The initial expense of the Edison building system was great/ but. the Government should purchase the plant and use it'at the different ' ■■ , Th ? H A n; ' , w - ; w - M'CABPLE (Auckland) nlso hoped'-the-tenement system'would never be adopted. : !'■-;• ■ Th® n ' J; RIGG- (Wellington) said that if cheap homes were ;to be provided in Wellmgton on an adequate scale the tenement system must be adopted, or the Town Belt must bo built upon. The main objection to tenement dwelling/was .due to sanitary defects, but .those would bo minimised if tho uoyernment built the tenements'. It was claimed, by many that the Town Belt must bo preserved as lungs for the city. But the city was; all lungs, being surrounded 'on tnree sides by ..tho sea and having a beautiful harbour in .the midst of it. There were portions-of the Town Bolt that wero useless' ror scenic or any other purposes except budding. The land that was nearest at hand ™ d „ takon first for workers' dwellinns. • 1L LUKE (Wellington) objected to . building on the . Town Belt. ' When there was . a population of half a million ■ nere the belt as a breathing space would be greatly valued. Proposals were now under consideration for beautifying portions of it and providing, much-needed sports grounds thereon. The Government, ho thought, could nnd suitable land for workers' houses within reach of tho.-city. ■ Hie Hon. G. JONES (Otago) pointed to the use winch might ho made of tho Advances to - Workers: Office. If he" were a- Wellington man, hii would do his utmost io prevent/ an inch of tho Town Belt being built on; (Hear, hear.)' The ATTORNEY-GENERAL '-(Hon. Dr. Findlay) said tno subject of the discussion was one of tho most important that could engage the attention of tho Government. Ho suggested, however, that "the motion should bd; withdrawn, because the architect was of opinion that to give publicity to tho > information asked for would embarrass tho Department in letting future contracts. . The motion, was withdrawn.

•MANAWATU RAILWAY. PURCHASE. The discussion on the second reading of the Manawatu Railway Purchase Bill was resumed by the Hon. F. .'lVask. The ■ Hon. J. -RIGG (Wellington) said he thought tho compauy wotild inake a good thine out of the transaction. The success ot the railway was due in part to the land it had been granted, and partly also to tho traffic it^ received from',the Government railways. Thus tho Government had helped to build up .the prosperity which it now had to pay for. The employees of the company ■Rould wclcoitio .the;*; change. The company should give them .a substantial bonus in addition Jo the £5000 for the superannuation scheme. He also congratulated the Government on .taking, over ; th.e''line. They had done the right "tllirig;'' and had they not acquired tho' line! rfow a higher price would have -had to be_paid for it later on. Satisfaction wftkthe arrangements made was expressed by the,Hons. T. Kelly, C. M. Luke, and Wiremu I'ere. • " • The ■ ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. Dr. Findlav) 1 said it might bo inferred by some from Mr. Rigg's remarks that tho company had mado a,.,bargain that was not in the best interests-of.-the State. Against such a view, ho submitted that all the difficulties presented by arbitration had been avoided. Had arbitration been resorted to as well, very great expense would have been incurred. The Bill.' vtps read a second time. AGRICULTURAL. PRODUCE BILL. On the motion of the Attorney-General, tho Agricultural . Produce Sido and Importation Bill was read a second time, pro forma, and referred to the Agricultural and Stock Committee, Tho Minister said ho was arranging for tho committee to hear cvidenco on Tuesday nost. CHRISTCHURCH SANITATION BILL. The Christchurch City Sanitation Bill was further amended in Committee. As tho Bill now stands, the owner of promises is responsible to the council for the full cost of sower connection, but ho has tho right to recover from a tenant, whoso lease has twelve months or more to run, six per cont. per annum of the total cost. Tho tenant has tho right to recover from a subtenant.

The Bill was reported, but will bo recommitted to mako consequential amendments. The Council at 4.50 p.m. adjourned until Tuesday. THE HOUSE. ARBITRATION BILL. DISCUSSION IN COMMITTEE. Tho Houso met at 2.30 p.m. Consideration in Coinmitteo of tho Industrial Conciliation aud Arbitration Aet Amendment Bill was oontinued at Clause 5. The clause, which includes amendments introduced since tlie Bill came from Committee, deals penalties for strikes: —■ (1.) When a strike takes placo in any industry, every worker who is. or becomes a party to tho strike, and who is at tho commencement of tho striko bound by any award or industrial agreement affecting that industry, shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding ten pounds. (2.) when a lock-out takes place in any industry, erory employer who is or becomes a party to the lock-out, and who is at tho commencement of tho lock-out hound by any award or industrial agreement affecting that industry, shall be liable to a penalty not exceeding two hundred pounds. (3.) No worker or employer shall he liable to more than one. penalty in respect of the same striko or lock-out, notwithstanding tho continuance thereof. Mr. POLAND moved to add to sub-clauso 1 (after "£10"): "Provided that tho penalty on all workers concerned in'one and the same strike shall not exceed £200." He Would Not Accent. Tho MINISTER was not prepared to accept tho amondmont. It would work out, for 1000 men, a maximum penalty of 4s. a man. They might as well'do away with tho i)eualty altogether! Mr. J. COLVIN (Buller) thought the aggregate fine of the men should not bo more than the employer would have to pay for a similar breach. The MINISTER said he wanted to make tho men who struck feel that they had great responsibility upon them. Mr. Poland: But what about tho employer? Isn't he doing a dangerous thing? Mr. Millar: The employer was to be fined £200. . . Mr. POLAND suggested that the Minister should mako an employer pay £10 for every worker shut out. Mr. HOGAN (Wanganui) thought there should be some amendment of tho clauso in the direction indicated by tho member for Ohinemuri. Some of tho membors of the lionse did not seem to understand what £5 meant to a working man. An Important Point. Mr. HERRIES stud there seemed to be no provision for fining a whole union that went out on strike. There was a fine for a breach of an award, but so far as he could see there was no provision in tho Bill for fining a " union that struck. ' '' . ■ n Ihe MINISTER said the Bill contained the i provision, and under it tho penalty was £200. j Irregular. 3 Mr. POLAND said that under the proj posals of. the Minister, if the miners of three levels in the Waihi mine struck, they would be fined £200, but if only a single level struck 3 the one hundred men involved would be liable j to an individual fine of a total of £1000. • j Mr. HERRIES said he saw merit in tho j amendment, since it sought to make tho fine individually what it would be if inflicted collectively, and not more. . , Tho proposed amendment was discussed the whole of the afternoon. A Case in Point. Mf. POLAND quoted what might happen in the case of tho Thames Miners' Union. One of the branch mine's ..employees .might have a grievance, but the whole union, say, decided not to strike.' 'If ;tho whole-union struck it would cost £200 as a penalty. But if the 160 men (comprising the branch) went out they would be liable to individual fine's totalling £1000. Now, tho wholo union might go'on striko for half an hour to help their comrades, then resume work: tho strike would have been constituted and the 160 men could remain out, and tho penalty would be £200. Mr. HOGAN quoted a similar instance. In the Wellington Sawmillers' Union thore were 1170 men. If thtf wholo union struck it would cost 3s. sd. per man in fines, while if a small section of the union struck (say at Dannevirko) they could bo fined ■ £1000 for dislocating tho industry in only a small district. There should be a fino for a minority as well as for the wholo union. Thore were cases under this Bill where a whole union would be called out for tho grievances of a, few men. Ho thought the' ■ provision would encourage strikes. The Hon. A. R. GUINNESS suggested the elimination of the dual remedy. He thoughttho Minister would be wise to striko. out all . reference to tho unions. The Minister's experience must have told him that payment •of fines by unions was a farce. , . Millar: The bakers paid a fine of Mr. Guinness admitted this, but thought , the Court had exceeded its jurisdiction. The Court had said that if the union paid up within a certain period fines would not be inflicted on tho men. At Blackball the fino , had not been paid by the union. , Mr. Poland's motion was lost by 44 to 25. j- The Division. j Thoso voting with Mr. Poland were (25) Arnold, "Barber, Barclay, Colvin,' Davey, Ell, Gray, Greenslade, Guinness, Hall, Hanan, Horrics, Hogan, Laurenßon, Lawry, Ngata, Poland, Poole, Remington, Seddon, Sidey, Tanner, Wilford, Witty, aud Wood. Against (44)—Alison, Allen (E. G.), Allen (J.) Baumo, Bollard, Buddo, Carroll, Chappie, Dillon, Duncan, Flatman, Fowlds, W. Eraser, Graham, Hall-Jones, Hardy, Heke Hogg, Hornsby, Houston, Izard, Jennings' Kidd, Lang, M'Gowan, T. Mackenzie, M'Nab, Macpherson, Major, Malcolm, Mander, Massey, Miller, Mills;'- Okoy, Rhodes, Ross, Rutherford, Stallwortby, Stevens, Steward Symes, Thomson, and Ward. * Mr. BARCLAY moved tho addition of the following words to sub-clause 1 (after "ten pounds'')" Provided always that such strike is not one sanctioned by an industrial union." After the dinner adjournment Mr. Barclay agreed not to press the amendment. Mr. MASSEY objected to its withdrawal, and on a vote being taken the amendment was lost on the voices. Mr. BARCLAY then moved the substitution of tho following words: —"Provided also that such strike takes place in respect to any matter or thing which is subject to or is dealt with by such award or industrial agreement." The MINISTER would not accept tho amendment. He said that if members of a union desired to striko there was a lawful way for th'om: they need not register under tho Act. But if they eamo under tho Act they must conform to it or pay tho penalty. The lion, member desired to provide that under the Act certain strikes would bo lawful. This was what he desired to avoid, and why conciliation was made predominant. Mr. BAUME pointed out that if Mr. Barclay's amendment were carried strikes such as the Auckland tramway strike could occur lawfully. Amendment Lost. The amendment was lost by 55 to 8. Sub-clause 1, as amended, was adopted. Mr. BAUME, at sub-clause 2, moved to make tho penalty against an employer £10 in respect of every worker looked out, instead of iv maximum fino of £200. The MINISTER was not prepared to acccpt this, but was ready to raise tho maximum penalty to £500 if such wcro desired. Tho New South Wales Act made tho maximum penalty for a lock-out £1000! Mr. Baume's amendment was lost by 44 to 18. A Genccsslon. Tho MINISTER then moved that tho fino for an employer creating a lock-out be £500 instead of £200. He intimated he would movo to mako the penalty tho same for a union later on. Tho amendment was agreed to.

Sub-clauso 2 and sub-clause 3, as above, were adopted. 1 Tho MINISTER moved a now sub-clauso: — No proceedings shall bo commenced or continued under this section against any worker or employer who is a party to a strike or lock-out nftcr judgment lias already been obtained under tho next succeeding section in respect of a strike or lock-out of any industrial union or association of which the worker or employer is n member. Clause 6. At Clause 6, ' s Tho MINISTER moved the following to substitute tho clause in tho bill: — "(1.) Erery person who incites, instigates, > aido, or abets an. unlawful strike or lock-out or the continuance of any such strike or lock-out, er who incites, instigates, or assists any person to become a party to any such strike or look-out, is lis.ble, if a worker, to a penalty not exceeding ten pounds, and if an industrial union, industrial association, trade-union, employer, or any porson other than a worker, to a penalty not exoeeding two hundred pounds. (2.) Every person who makes any gift of money <or other valuable tiling to or for the benefit of any porson who is a party to any unlawful strike or lock-out, or to or for tho benefit of any' industrial union, industrial association, trado-union, or other society or association of which any such person is a member, shall bo deemed to have aided or abetted the strike or lock-out within tho meaning of this section, unless be proves that ho so acted without tho intent of aiding or abetting the strike or lock-out. (3.) "While any unlawful' strike or lock-out is taking place or impending, any person who publishes in any newspaper any expression of approval or disapproval, whether by himself or by - ajiy other person, of tho unlawful'action of any person in relation to that striko or lock-out is liable to a, penalty not exceeding fifty pounds. (4.) When a strike or lock-out takes placo, and a majority of the members of any industrial union or industrial association are at any time parties to tho striko or lock-out, tlio said union or association shall be deemed to have instigated tho striko or lock-out." The Minister intimated he would move to define in the miscellaneous "a lawful strike" to be where thero was an award or an industrial agreement. Aiding er Abetting, The MINISTER explained that sub-clauso 1 was to deal with big companies or newspapers, 6omo of whom had already declared that they would break the law. -While it would be reasonable to cliargo a poor man a sovereign, they must provido for a proper penalty for the big papers. Mr. BARCLAY objected to the insertion of the phrase "or for the benefit of" in tho sub-clauso bringing within the scope of the Act any person who made a gift to a party to a strike. This, ho said, would prevent anyone giving food or money to tho family of a striker. Mr. WILFORD pointed out. that a charitable aid board would also be liable under tho section. Tho "Gag" Again. The Hon. R. GUINNESS moved that subclauso 3, dealing with newspapers, be struck out. Ho thought the opinions exercised by tho press had a good moral elf act upon both sides in a striko.- An opportunity was given for expressions of opinion upon wjiat was going on. The clause would prevent this, however, and there was nothing liko public opinion to influence those carrying on a striko. Public opinion should not be stopped in any way. , Mr. A. L. D. FRASER did not want to gag tho press in any way, especially on important questions, but he would like to see it compulsory for any writer to tho press, on such occasions, to attach his namo. Tho MINISTER said the question was for mombers to settle. If they were prepared to havo leaders, articles, anonymous letters, notes of meetings of unions, etc., and everything calculated to provoke feeling,- let thorn. To do so would be, ho thought, to inliamo feeling. If this wero suppressed, it would assist a speedier settlement. . They had had that experionco- over the Blackball striko. If .this provision had obtained there, a settlement would havo been speedier. ■ If there was this alleged feeling oil the part of the newspapers regarding, this clause, 'why had tho papers' not cried out already ? Mr. RUTHERFORD, asked what would tho wealthy papers care about a fine of "a paltry fifty pounds? It would be the small country papers that could not pay the fine that would suffer, and tile district in which they circulated, because they would not' obtain tho news. , ' ' Mr. A. L. D. FRASER said tho press constituted tho voico of tho public, and he was against the clause. ' . - Mr. T. WILFORD sSid thero was nothing in the sub-clauso, to prohibit newspapers, recounting tho history of, or facts connected with, a strike, so long as they did not express approval or disapproval with ono side or tho other. Mr. DAVEY asked if tho clause, prevented a member of Parliamont oxpressing approval or disapproval with either side. - Tho answer was that this could bo done so long as publication did not follow:' Mr. J. ALLEN could not see that respectable legitimate newspaper comment should'bo restricted. After further discussion tho Minister consented to have sub-clauso 3 (relating to newspapers) struck out. Tho sub-clauso was struck out. , ' • Clause 6, as amended, was then adopted/, Clause 7 (dealing .with' tho recovery-of penalties), and Clause 8 (repealing Section' HI of tho principal Act) wero -speedily, adopted. At Clauso 9, which deals -with special * penalties in respect to striking without' due notice by' workers employed in industries specified as "necessaries of life," Mr. BARCLAY moved a new sub-clause J providing for a penalty not oxceeding/£2OO in the case of an employer summarily con-, victed for a lock-out.' ' This was agreed to and adopted. , ■ Clause 9 was then adopted. ' Suspension Clause. Clause 10 provides for the suspension of tho registration of a union convicted- of. certain offences. Mr. Barclay objected to the clause. Mr. HOGAN (Wanganui) pointed out that already thoy had penalties for strikes and ■ for aiding a.nd abetting; therefore ho thought this additional heavy penalty should bo struck out altogether. If a strike occurred, say: at -Pahiatua, tho action of that - branch would a,ffect tho union ovor tho whole industrial district. There would only noed to bo a feiv such strikes among small, brandies or unions and they would have suspensions or awards throughout tho Dominion. 1 Tho MINISTER said 110. Tho Bill provided tor the_ localisation of strikes, so that the : suspension of tho award need only apply, to quote tho instance of the lion ' member, to tho Pahiatua district. In further explanation tho Minister said tho pen- ■ alty of 'cancellation would not follow a ' member of a union all over tho Dominion. : j a man left tho district where his award had been suspended, tho penalty would not pursue him. The Minister thought the clauso was an excellent provision, because unions would bo very loth to forego their registration and their awards. At the samo timo they had tho .safeguard of an appeal. An Astute Move. At this stage Mr. Barclay, who had been ■ the chief mover of amendments and tho most 1 freqnont and earnest of debaters, was anpointed _ chairman in relief of Mr. 11. 1 M'Keiizie. Tlie MINISTER agreed to make the maximum term of suspension two years instead of three. - , , 1 Mr. HOGAN, consistent with his remarks - moved that Clauso 10 as amended bo struck ' out. , ' The clause was retained by 47 to 13. ! This completed Part I of tho Bill. ' j Adjournment Wanted. At this stage, 12.40 a.m., Mr. Massey ] pleaded for an adjournment, and protested ' against sitting further. (Hear, hear.) ] The MINISTER first said lot them pass 1 Part II of the Act—l 3 further sections. Then 1 ho capitulated a little, and said pass ten. sections, and then eight. (Laughter.) Tho debate proceeded.

» PART 11. ENFORCEMENT OF AWARDS. Sections 11, 12, 13, and 14 were speedily passed. At Clauso 15 " two clear days" was ,al- !, tered to five, as the period of notice to bo [ given by a defendant that lie intended to [ defend a case. Progress was reported at 1.30 a.m., 18 . clauses having been passed. The House adjourned till 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday. NEWS AND NOTES. IF THE HOUSES DISAGREE. . In view of the possibility, if not probability, | of tlio House disagreeing with some of tho amendments niado by tho Council in tho Second Ballot Bill, it is interesting to noto that if the two Chambers were sufficiently porsist-ent, the trouble might end in dropping tho Bill or' in altering it materially. First, of coursc, messages would bo exchanged in the usual form, but if tho deadlock continued, tho House would ask tho Council to appoint managers, who would confer with managers appointed by the House, with a view of arriving at an agreement. If they failed to do so, other managers could bo appointed in their stead, and .there appears to be no limit to tho number of times tho process' might bo repeated, though in practice it has rarely, if ever, gono very far. Tho Council might declino any request for a conference, and tho House would then have to drop'tho Bill or agreo.to the amendments. The managers, at a conference,., might come to an arrangement involving amendments to any part of tho Bill, including clauses that wore not previously in dispute. Such are the constitutional possibilities. What is likely to happen in regard to tho Second Ballot is another story. Tho third reading was placcd rather low down on yesterday's Legislative Council order paper. OHARIU VALLEY. Mr. Field_ is to ask tho Government whether they will, while thero is yet time before the land assumes more than farm values and while there is a considerable quantity for sale, consider the quostion of relieving tho congestion of population in the Citj of Wellington by purchasing a large 'area or the land in the Ohariu Valley for workmen's homes and other' close settlement purposes; and whother the Government will also take into their serious consideration the question of connecting the Ohauriu Valley with the Main Trunk Railway at Crofton by tho short lino and tunnel which would be required to effect such connection, and thus bring tho Ohariu Valley, which is capable of carrying a population of many thousands, within about a quarter of an hour's train- journey of Wellington City; and also whether the Government will at the proper time consider tho question of constructing - a second lino between Porirua and Wellington by way of tho Ohariu Valley. Mr. Field says this route would bo moro'direct and would entail less hill-climbing than tho routo by way of Johnsonville_; it presents no serious engineering difficulties, and would open tip a large extent of vahiablo farm and building land which is. now in an isolatod position. An important return is being asked for by Mr. 1-lerries, viz. (1) The area of Native land vested in each Maori Land Board under Section 5 of tho Native Land Settlement Act, 1907; (2) tho area of land in each Maori Land District divided in accordance with Section 11. of tho abovo Act, showing the area sot apart for loasing and for sale by freehold; and (3) the total ,arca in each Maori Land District that has been leased (a). to Maoris, and (b)' to Europeans, or sold to Europeans under tho provisions of tho above Acty A petition was presented ,to ■ tho House yesterday from Alex. Mackay,' Paero'a, praying for a reward for having first' discovered gold at Waihi in 1866, for having floated tho original company on the Thames after the opening of Ohinemuri to gold mining, and for having discovered gold at Karanga--hake in 1867. Ho also claims to have found gold at Waitekauri and at Owharoa. In 1868, ho says, tho Provincial Government had offorod a payable.-field—22 miles from Thames.- / Tho Cliristchurch City Sanitation Empowering Bill has been materially amended by the Local Bills Committeo, to which tho Legislative Council sent it -last week. All words making occupiers and tenants jointly liable with ownors for the cost of sewer connections have been struck, out, and a new clause has been added to provido that when the promises aro held by a tenant with a term of at least one year unexpired tho owner may recover from'him, as if it were rent, six per cent, per annum' on tho cost of tho work, • or, as tho case may bo, on each instalment paid by the'owner; such, percentage to be computed from the date of payment by the owner, and to be, payable at tho end of each year during tho residue of the tenancy. A tenant may recover the amount paid by him from a sub-tenant.