HOUSING OF THE PEOPLE.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 257, 23 July 1908, Page 8

HOUSING OF THE PEOPLE.

| DEPUTATION TO'A MINISTER. | : . ALLEGED INSANITARY DWELLINGS. THE OTHER SIDE OF THE QUESTION. . A deputation from the meeting ' hold at tho Queen's Statue in-the interests of tho unemployed waited up6n;thV) Hon. G. Fowlds ; last'^"qvbningt. Tho reason 'for. seeking , an interview'-."with, ,th?.;,. Minister for -. Public Health was i explained by Mr.. Robert Hogg, who-'stated- .that- as- a 'member of tho Unemployed 'Comih'itteo "lib'.'liad' been, visiting' tlio families'' of" men' wiio' woro out df','work. ,In bno-'-'jiouso , ill Adclaidq .'.Road, 1 Nqwtown,, bo found M v,ery .insanitary conditions. Thero was a fusty, musty smell.-: ;Water was coming through the roof 'and 'tlio paper was coming off tho walls; .Ho'was 1 told on inquiry that : the ."rent was 15s. .'a, pgekj and that the propriotor. was Dr.,, Chappie., Immediately behind was another.;ho'use,' inhabited' by a woman-•severity -yearß ; :pf age, who was charged 7s. 6d. 'a week rent. The window was exactly; .behind the' chimney of the other house,-'and no could'-span tho distance from 'the :^iiiddw 1 .'td...ttie'-c!iiinney. He did not know ( Jipw"..'such could be allowed. This -second house |also ivas leaking, and ho 'noticed'rain- on'the walls insido. ' Tho ,iron .outsido' was. flapping in the wind. Tho 'ma? ".Hoard? '.were I .' loose,;', and the place was .insaiiittfw;i'i'-!He.;.'a^ed'''Whb. was' the owner, and iyis' J ag4.iri;.told; "Pr;^' Chappie." He' had 'by.- Dr.; (dapple that he was riot the owTier,. but only a trustee. He (Mr. :Hogg) , .' , 'felfi;','however,Vthafc as. trustee. Dr. Chappie, should take'tho moral responsibility. 'i " ' CONDEMNED HOUSES. ' ;

.Mr., H.ogg went on' to. say that a number of houses which' were.- condemned by tho Health Department ! six/.years ago were still occupied., (i He:had- : a of them, and could forward it,;,to ; thp:,Minister. These houses. 'W6rei;-in';-.vanpusv:parts-, of this city! '"Mr. D. TG;Pritchard (Blackball) said that ;tho houses iin r ,question: had been condemned' after ;,an, inspection,. which resulted from statements -.made by Mr.-Tom Maim six years .agO.,;:. •'; Mr.;jHogg .'further .said that-ho had said to Dr.' Chappie,.on'.'.the.itelephone that tho two houses he had. describe?! , ought to. be : burnt,--andi'tho. .proprietor with them., How f could Dr.' .Chappie > write-a ■ book about tho eliihiiiation ,of.- the unfit while be had control of such ho.uses? 'Ho,w;cqiild tliey-haye any-, thing'hut, r an unfit, -rade.. in such-' conditions? . X BURDEN.OF RENT. . : : [ Mr/ powdle''- said -that; in going - through the Dominion, and : especially in Wellington, hey Bad found maiiy "pebble in distressed circumstances," And''their cpief difficulty gonerally 'was"tho tremendous', amount of rent thoy. had to pay. ' .They overcrowded their houses with lodgers, ! and there .were in Wellington families ■'living; in 'one'' room.' 1 .- ' In the very, houso - Be vwas: staj'ing' in there, werev four men' sleeping in ;one room of 10ft-. by 12ft. No sanitary: authority in any other part of the world would allow such a thing... In ■England, every person keeping a : registered lodging-houso was-compelled to put up a 1 notice stating the-sleeping capacity of tho room and .the .number;of persons allowed to occupy it, but- • such' a .law seemed ' to bo conspicuous by its'-absence..in'this country. ANOTHER CASE. ■ ' He wished to;;rcfcr;tq a house off Adelaide •Road, which he liad'visited within:.the last fortnight.' ...Tho occupant was a sober man, and ~did..:not evon, smoko. Ho had ; beon honestly l looking'for work,' but it was only within >■ the ' last . few; days that he had been able'"'to ' obtain it',".'aiid he was in such straitened circumstances that,. a charitablo society'had sent' his' wifo to the St. Helens' Maternity..Hospital,:'where she-had given :birth.,to ,twins.,,,, Thevtwo front rooms of 'this house were occupied by another family,. to whom. thoy had. been, let to help, provide the .rent, ancU when that,poor woman camo. out bf ; ."the;hospital,'m''a few days' time, with •her.two babies, 'she would have to go into a small, "dark;/ damp; bedroom, arid a kitchen , eight feet' widej leading to an open yard. -.Those." were':th'o ' only rooms they had. He did'not .lmow'what''.tho''rent.was. ' The' same i'spcaker*. also referred to two houses .in: the; same neighbourhood,: which, though'hp had not'been'insjde them, appeared, 'tii-'him "unfif ' for human 1 habitation. , : The 1 agent who"let them 'ma.de'.it'a*condition'that the:'tenants must: buy their provisions' at his 'store.'-If'there was'a Truck, Act in New Zealand 'it was'time 1 '; that was. stopped. As Dr; Chappie was .member for Tuapeka, it' ■might,'not be ,amiss to say' that' ho.had- seen ill,. that'"district '.' (Tuapeka) dwellings that would not:'be'"tolerated in any city in New Zealand: '" Ho 'mentiohed : 'sqd nouses, houses built' of■: Kerosene ''tins; and the:,case of a Maori- at. Alexandra living in, a cave. - . DR. CHAPPLE IN SELF-DEFENCE. '• Dr v ,Chapplp,i,M.P.,i.who, had been invited by Minister',to .bo" .present, said- he was very . .glad: .to,- meet the . deputation,. and,-to hear'froin'thpm. soimuch edrnest advocacy of •improved sanitaryconditions., in -.the - .city.. He would'.likeit,to«bo,, understood that-he did not own the,-houses,.that had been mentioned, nor had ;hoany. , monetary interest direct; or'-indirect in .them. They belonged to a decoased.estate of .which ho was trustee. As .'to the chargo of rack-renting, ono'of the houses,-.-which was;.bringing in 16s. a week, seven years', ago,-was.'now let. at 14s. a week. ,Mr. Hogg:, Fifteen shillings a week, I was ;t01d.,1-'tif. ,v. ,Dn:Chappie:.Fourteen.is all she pays. He ' also„.s.aid.; .tjiat .the, .letting, was done through 'a.finij'io£*.ftgents,.a®dj>he knew nothing of the tenants,Tho agents-consulted him. It was a shop.and,dwelling ,of| five rooms. ./ M_r v Hogg: counting the shop. ' '. Dr: tniapple : It is : on.'the main street, and wasl'built'aboutnnine.ryears ago. ,Dr. Ctappie . said the. house'was .comparatively hew-'whe'ri-he'lfirst .knew. it, seven recently -done up and ,papered;. ,fhrpughput. , Mr.; Hogg:, You don't' say, who, paid for it'. Tlio 'old.'lady' says,,she paid for it.. Dr. Chappie: You are referring h to tho houso at;tho back? i ' Mr. Hogg: j Dr. Chappie: I,.don't.,think that was done. He asked .wiether. ,the house that he had had : paperedJirecently,- was insanitary. He had.. not . seeii-. ,it .since-it was' papered, but •hoi )f6uld::'go ; ,ivithi Mr.,.Hogg; and see -it on ■the .niorro.w..The papering was . paid for by him. //. - '. -[ X "■ RACK-RENTING- DENIED. ■: There, could be np'"rack-renting in letting a shop'and'fivo.rooms,'on a. main street.at 14s.'a'freek,' It.had.bpen reduced from 16s. to 14s'. t since .he had :been trustee, and seeing that''rentsVs a rule had not; gone down, ,t.ho-.present-rent did;not, seem to him to be ,unfair'.''-'Ho:,.SVouM confer the Health right and fair. ~ ' Mr.. Pritcbard: What; .we want is for you to do':wliat ,you think''right and . fair. .The Health : allows buildings to bo inhabited 'iyears, .after .they have been . condemned: '. • ; :DrrcHapple: 'l am . always against anything .insiiriitaiy, in. tho conditions ~ under which people have to livo.' . I, sympathise with your efforts to improve, sanitary , conditions, but in. so 1 far .as" those efforts are focussed on me I. ani'right in making a'reply. ' ' '; ,'T0 i O'';CLOSE TOGETHER. Proceeding,- Dr. Chappie said he admitted thatithe .'cottage, at the 1 back was too close to the other house, but claimed that he was in no way responsible for that fact.- Tho Clity Council, in widening tho -street, pushed the houso back, but neither tho Council nor the Health.Dopartment, nor the tenant had complained. It did not make tho houso insanitary, but it lessened tho amount of yard space for tho front houso. Ho would admit that tho larger,-tho space around dwellings, the moro healthy and wholesome they were, but. such things were tolerated bocauso tho people had.no chance of getting anything : better. The houses were now in the bands of an agent for, salo, with a view , to the erection of., brick shops. The present buildings were not in keeping with the locality, and I good brick shops should be erected, but the estate could not aifo'rd to do so, and, therefore,'the- building ynsaf\ Jueinn offered fot

sale. Ho would go and look at them tho next day, .and if'thero was anything insanitary or out of place or anything that required to be done, he would certainly have it done. If thero was anything distinctly unwholesome, it'was tho duty of tho-agents to ring him up. They usually did so in such . cases, arid-hp rang up the carpenter or tho plumber, and had tho thing doiic. Overcrowding was worse than what had been alleged of tho houso in question, as apart from the matter of'tho rain coming in, it would ; appear-' to,-bo ;just a huge, ventilating chamber, But overcrowding had not been alleged. , ; ' . Mr. Ilogg: Tlicr.e are six chiidron and two adults'..'living', there. V . , Dr.'..Chappie: In;.five rooms arid a shop used for dwelling purposos. - NOT PALACES. , Mr. Hogg: The old woman at the back ' said she had complained again and again, • and nothing was done. Would you like to rear your family in' a room with a window like that?. Dr. Chappie: We can't have palaces for evoryone. Mr. Hogg: Why can't wo? . We build the palaces. The Minister: Thai's a big question. We can't go into it'now. < Dr. Chappie:' I admit that the houso is not a' palace,.but I don't know that it re- 1 quires to .be pulled down. ■Mr. Hogg: What we advocate is a clauso 1 such as there is;at Glasgow, giving the City Council power to pull down or repair a ' house, as required, and charge the landlord, t if he will not'do'what is required. Dr. Chappie: I will do what is fair without ' being asked. .Ho suggested that it might he iinfa;ir to the tenant, who had been there • for years and, years, to pull down the house, ' if there; was not another equally cheap and suitablo available. '

THE MINISTER'S REPLY. The Minister then checked further discussion between Dr. Chappie and his critics. He stated in reply to the deputation that he would, order -an investigation to bo.mado immediately .by the officers of the Health Departiherit. They would report to him, and what was necessary would bo done. If any of the houses'., were insanitary to such a degree as to call for condemnation, that course would be-followed. • The question'of' rent did not como within the purview of his Department. Ho - would like to see Mr. Hogg's list of dwellings condemned some years ago and still inhabited. Perhaps the houses had'been condemned in their then condition and since repaired to meet requirements, hut if .there were any that were abso-lutely-condemned to be pulled down becauso they could not' in the opinion of the Department be made' sanitary,, he would, see wliat could" be done. : The power was .'pot vested in the Department to set to work and pull down houses:., The co-operation of the City Council was but if the facts wero as stated' he 'would • ask tho Council to' explain why they bad not carried out their duty. Overcrowding was a question for tho City Council,- and the Municipal Corporations Act ; gave them power to 'make such by-laws - as they had in Glasgow, and havo them enforced... .

Mr. Hogg: If they don't enforce them, may not the, Department intervene? The Minister:' Only in extreme eases, such as tho occurrence of plague; but they ought to carry out instructions in .the matter of pulling down' houses. _ Wo have no power to take the City. Council, by the scruff of the neck and maico them do anything.