LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 50, 22 November 1907, Page 9

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

> ; f MAKARA COUNTY. _ A' message was received by tho Legislative. Council yesterday afternoon stating that or Representatives disagreed with the'new'clause added to theMakara County Bill; by the Legislative Council, on the ground that ai'gencral measure would' be introduced which iwould achieve the same effect as the proposed clause. . The' ir Council decided not to insist on the amendment. v- -NATIVE LAND &lI.L. ":,-SECOND READING. The Native Land Settlement Bill was received from the House of Representatives and read a first time.. • • ,;The : ; Attorney-General (Hon. Dr. J. G. Findlay) immediately moved the second reading.,' In the course of his speech, ho said that 'justice to the Natives was the first consideration, and they might rely that that would be secured by adopting the recommendations of the Royal Commission, as its personnel formed a guarantee of reliable information and sympathetic regard for the Natives. The Bill would largely reduce the nunibe'rs; of Native land agents, because the methods, prescribed were simplicity itself, and'the limitation clauses would be a check on''land : monopoly. The highest prices and mrald bo secured? , by auction'""arid - .-tedder'. .A I 'lease jjds,t.,'"jEsoo; would inow cost only £5 or £0," and "tho difference; would go into the pockets of the 'Maori owners.v '■'■ Roading:,and:subdivision wero .also provided, for. ■:: He ■■believed, the Bill woukl prove,to':be the beginning of the real solution.of; the Maori land problem. It provided even-handed justice for both races. Among the . Natives were competent and hardworking farmersj'-and it was our duty to educate others,' so 'that they might bo "successful in making;the best use of their lands. This would be the best security for the future of a race, of which wo all ought to be proud. The Hon. W. W. M'Cardle (Auckland) said the Natives were getting higher rents for.' lands in tho King Country than the Crown was getting, and the lessees ■ had" to bear the oxpensos of the leases. He con-t gratulated the Government on, bringing forward the Bill, which was a more comprehensive one than had been introduced by any previous Government. .

The '! King" Protests. Mahuta te Wherbwhcro, speaking an interpreter, urged that .the Bill 'should be postponed, as the Natives had not .yet had an opportunity to consider it. If the Government wanted land tp experimentwith, he would givo them any quantity. Native, land, occupied or unoccupied,, belonged toi the Maoris, and the Government had no. right to confiscate it. .- ThelMaorl Landlord. The' Hon. J. Aristey said he feared that , disposal of the lands by auction, would unduly force up the rentals. During the currency, of the 50 year leases the land would receive.'.a great amount of betterment from Government works and the efforts of tho settlers.! The Maori owner would not contribute to this, and he should not bo allowed to reap the whole benefit.'He thought tho Bill should also provide for the acquisition' of : Maori lands by the Government.' Not Confiscation. The Hon. Captain Tucker sympathised with tho Hon. Mr. Mahutap's plea for postponement, but thought the Bill was conceived in the interests of the Native raco. lhe Bill did not propose confiscation, but the. taking over of the direction of Nativo lands by the Government in the interests of settlement. Ho (Captain Tucker) would have preferred that no provision should bo made for the sale of Maori lands, but ho recognised that tho monoy so -paid might help, the Maoris to farm the lands retained by,them. He thought a Maori owner should never.receive a lump sum for tho sale of land, but the money should bo given in the form; of an annuity. The Act was a further evidence of the care and consideration that had been shown.for the Natives.

The Hon. J. Rigg supported the Bill. All through it, the protecting hand of the Native Minister, whose ambition was to benefit the Native , race; could be plainly seen. The Maoris,need have no fear of injustice while he was at the head of the Native administration. . . ,•' Hpn.'j. D.Ormond's Views. T , n <> Hon. J, D. Ormond (Hawke's Bay) said,the Maoris would regard this Bill as tho cruellest measure that could have been imposed orrthem, because it dealt with their lands without their approval. Their lands were.the one thing they cared for and lived for, and nothing that could afterwards bo done, would prevent them from feeling that en, injustice had been inflicted upon them. W4th.regard to the per3onnol of the Royal Commission, while entertaining tho highest respect for the Chief Justice, and regarding Mr. Ngata as a fitting representative of the Nativo race, they lacked the experience necessary for dealing with somo of the largo phases ..of the .subject. A man who had extended experience of the uses of land should have been associated with thorn. They did; not'go carefully over tho AVaimarama block; in Hawkd's Bay, at any rate. •The Hon. Dr. Findlay: "I know tho contrary."' . ' ; . The Hon. J. D. Ormond, proceeding, said the Commission had to say what portions of .'tho land should be kept for tho Maoris, and.', what portions could be leased or sold, Tho-Commission, as at present constituted] had. neither the time nor the experience required. Tho Maoris. should have- a right of-appeal against the dispositions to bo mado: under tho Bill. They should also have tho right to elect representatives on the Maori Land Boards. ) Tho reading and opening- for settlement of the lands should have been done-by the already

engaged in such work, and not by tho Maori Land Boards. Thcro would bo precious little left for the unfortunate Maori after tho reading, survoy, and other costs had been'mot. Ho was.confident that vory little would be done under the Bill boforo Parliament reassombled, and ho hoped that then some amendments would bo mado. Ho was sorry to hear the Hon. Captain Tucker say that all the lands should bo leased. His own opinion, based on knowledge of tho territories concorned, was that most of tho land would nover be taken up on lease. He was, moreover, strongly opposed to the setting up of Maori landlordism. . Tho Attorney-General: "Hoar, hear." .

"The Dawn Is Broaiilng." The Hon. Wiremu Pore, speaking through tho interpreter, said that, ever since he entered Parliament, he had advocated that alienation of Maori lands should cease, and that tho Maoris should be enabled to control their lands. The people who were responsible for the opposition to this Bill were lawyers. (Hon. Dr. Findlay: "Hoar, hear.") Ho did not include among them Mr. Ormond, who was a real friond to tho Maoris, and the survivor of other good men who had gono into tbo darkness. Those men bought land from tho Maoris in ,a very honourable manner. By this Bill which ho held in his baud ho could see that tho. dawn was breaking. Nothing could bo fairer than the Royal Commission going among the Maoris and finding out what they wanted done with tho land. It was not at all necessary for tho Royal Commission to go all over the land and classify it. (The Attorney-General: "Hear, hear.") By this Bill - a seed would be planted, and a treo would grow, and tho Maoris would eat of tho fruit. Eastern Maoris Delighted. If the Bill was postponed, another 100,000 acres of land would be sold by the Maoris. (Hon. Dr. Findlay: "Hear, hear.") The Government would buy it at jts usual price of 6d. an acre. The Wanganui Maoris would bo trying to sell another 100,000 acres :n the recess if tho Bill was not passed. There was the'To Akau Block, in the Hon. Mr. Maimta's district. If the Government only paid the Natives £2 an acre for that land, he was very sorry, becauso it was worth £5 or £6.' The Bill would tie tho hand that had been turning the screw and squeezing the Maoris down for many years.. The saving of lawyers' fees would put money into the Maoris' pockets. If it was tho feeling of Mahuta's people that tho Bill should stand ovor until next session, let it bo made to apply only to the East Coast. All the Natives of his district would be delighted with the Bill.

Dr. Findlay Replies. The Attorney-General, replying shortly aftor the dinner adjournment, said tho Hon. Wi Pere's speech was as complete a vindication of the Bill against the criticisms of Mr. Ormond as could' be desired. He (tho At-torney-General) was gratified at the rccoption of the Bill by the Council. Tho Hon. Mr. Ormond, being wedded to the system of free trade in . Native lands, did not approach tho Bill with a mind prepared to appreciate it. Between 1870 and 1880 we had freo trade in Native lands, and the records of that time were not a thing to be proud of. Not another member of the Council, probably, would vote in favour of free trade in Nativo lands. After warmly. commending tho personnel of the Commission, the Attorney-General referred to the Chief Justice's work on the Compensation Court as proving his competency in land matters, and eulogised the' attainments and career of Mr. Ngata. The statement of Mr. Ormond ,as # .to the visit of the Chief Justice to'"\Vainja'rama was,.finite incorrect. .The visit wns.' ; not : ' ; 'foiv the jju'rnose of classi-' fication aW-'y.ahia'tidir'of. life laid" "bliPtt , locato a 400-acre resorve. Ample time was spent there., for the purpose, and abundant evidence- was taken on the quality ..and class of tho land when the time came to deal with that 'question. He maintained his opinion, a»ninst Mr. Ormond, that tho work of the Commission would be finished within one year. It was quite a mistake to supposethat the Commission had to have the land surveyed and subdivided among the owners. It had to ascertain what surplus land was available for tho purposes of European settlement. There was no reason why tho surplus lands of the North Island'should not be dealt with inside the next-twelve months. The Alleged Injustice. As to tho alleged injustice to the Natives, there was not only the speech of the Hon. Mr. Wi Pore to. quote against that. The Hon. Mr. Mahiita had not complained of injustice, but had only asked for postponement. If Mr. Ormond would turn' to tho records of the days when lie was in the Government ho would find examples enough of injustice to the Natives. In tho case of every block of land dealt with by the Commission except one, the Natives , had given their full support and concurrence to what was done by tho Commission. . The exception was in tho' King Country, and,- he believed the Nativo owners in that instance also would concur with the report. Mr. Ormond's statement that by the time tho Bill had done its work there would be very little left for the Maoris was based upon tho contention that the administration of. the■ lands should be taken from the Maori Land Boards, which had a right to say that they represented the Maoris, and given to the Waste Land Boards, which wore purely European tribunals. What could be more inconsistent with his complaints of injustice to the Natives? Protecting the Maori. With regard to Mr. Ormond's excuses for his oomowhat obvious ignorance of tho provisions of tho Bill, ho should bo aware that all tho jn it wero clearly enunciated by the Premier in a speech at Napier a year ago. The details certainly camo before members lato in the session. That .was due to the exigencies of tho session, and to the fact that the Government had tried to accomplish in one year moro useful legislation than had previously boen accomplished in tho time. If "the Bill orrcd on the side of generosity to tho Maori, it erred on the right sido. It sought to protect him from himself, and from thoso of the white raco who in the past had fed and fattened upon his credulity and want of knowledge. This measure, could stand unashamed beside thoso measures which tho legislators of tho past, who claimod such knowledge of the Maori people, placed on tho Statute Book.

Tho second reading was carried by 25 to 2 (Hons. J. D. Ormond and Mahuta). Amendments In Committee. The Bill was then committed, Clause 10.authorises the Governor, on the request of tho Commission, to prohibit bv Order in Council all private alienation of any land reported on by tho Commission. Tins was amended so as to apply to "any specified aroa or areas of Nativo land whether reported on by the Commission or not." A new sub-clause was added, on the motion of the Attorney-Gonoral, to Clause 25, to provide that any land alienated in fee simple under tin's Act shall be subject to' the provisions of Part IV. of the Land Laws Amendment Act, 1907, in tho same manner as if tho land was alienated by the Crown. Tho Attorney-General, at whoso instance tho amendment was made, said that this was a limitation provision, preventing the land heing sold to persons who already hold moro than the land laws allowed. Consequential and drafting amendments wore made, and tho Bill was read a third time by 24 to 1, after the lion, Mahutn had failed to find a single supporter in a "sixmnntlis hence" motion. The Bill was then passed. Tho Council, at 9.30 p.m., adjourned until 11 a.m. to-day.