HIGH TAXATION.

Press, Volume LXVI, Issue 19892, 1 April 1930, Page 7

HIGH TAXATION.

DEBATE IN THE LORDS.

PEERS ON FARM TROUBLES.

(rftOK OCT OWV COBUSFOXBXXT.)

LONDON, February 20,

On February 19th the House of Lords discussed agriculture and the need for economy in the public Bervice. Lord Liverpool asked the Government: Whether, in view of the present serious condition of the agricultural industry, they would convene a representative committee selected from all three political Parties to consider the best and most efficacious means to deal with the situation. He said that when he took up a newspaper that morning he was tempted to withdraw his motion, for it seemed that a certain scheme had been devißed by which everything was to be cured in a moment. But unless they did something there would be a vast amount of unemployment in agriculture. The farmer, especially the arable farmer, found the dice heavily weighted against him. The subsidies on German corn had knocked the bottom out of the market for cereals, and he believed that all three Parties had come to the conclusion that the dumping of German cereals should cease. As to potatoes, a farmer in the Holland district told him that he could not get rid of them by hook or by crook. The farmers should not be asked to pay a hard-and-fast wage unless they were given the power to do so. He would throw out the suggestion that the Government should at once set up a Committee to consider the establishment of depots, under the county councils, to which farmers would bring their produce and receive a guaranteed price. The farmers might also buy their manures and artificial manures there, and the profits on these transactions could be used to meet the costs of the depots. A scheme of that kind was in force in New Zealand, which was the most prosperous Dominion. Farming and Politic*. Lord Cranworth declared that if the financial situation of agriculture in the Eastern Counties were exposed even the Government would be surprised. The farmer had been brought up in the Board School, and had been taught to think that England was a great and respected nation. Now he was taught to believe that England was the dustbin of Europe. Lord Airlie said people did not know how bad the situation was, and sometimes ho wondered whether people cared. In a few years the farmer would be producing nothing but stock and .milk. And the foreigner would continue to dump his grain and potatoes, but not at the present low prices—at high prices which the poor man would have to pay. The Bishop of Norwich did not believe that a satisfactory solution would over be arrived at until agriculture was treated as we treated foreign affairs—something above Party politics.

The Duke of Marlborough imagined that to-day the foodstuffs supplied by the farming community had sunk to at least 20 per cent, of the needs of the country. We could produce 20 to 25 per cent, more home-grown food. They should try to remove this great industry from the flotsam and jetsam of Party politics. Non-P&rty Conference. Lord de la Warr (Under-Secretary, War Office) said at the present moment there was a non-political body sitting considering remedies. '""'" The conference was composed of land, owners, farmers, and workers, with the Minister for Agriculture in the chair. It had been suggested that this conference was debarred from discussing the really important topics. The only points they were debarred from discussing were tariffs and subsidies; and after the speech of Mr Baldwin the other day ho did not think Lord Cranworth would find any quarrel on that point Lord Cranworth: Indeed, I do. Lord de la Warr: I was assuming for the moment that the ex-Prime Minister was the Leader of the Con. aervative Party. When the conference to.which he had referred had reported the Minister for Agriculture would consider how next to proceed.. At the moment he felt that the opportunities for agreement between the political parties were probably greater than they formerly were. Lord Cranworth pointed out that Lord de la Warr was assuming that Mr Baldwin spoke against subsidies and tariffs.

Lord de la Warr aaid nothing had recently been heard about subsidies from the Conservative loader. There had been some disposition to consider the proposal he had brought before the House for wheat and meat import boards. While he could not Hold out any hope at the moment that the Minister for Agriculture had made up his mind as to the action he would take when the Committee had reported, it did look that a conference might be more possible than it had been up to the present. Lord Stanhope said that noble lords' on the Opposition benches thought it would be very undesirable to have a conference of all the political parties until those engaged in the industry itself had concluded their conference. But, apart from- that, the Conservative Party could not eo into a conference if they were asked to discuss nationalisation of the land. Farmers at the present time required two things—<l) if possible, to reduce the cost of production, and (2) if possible to get a better • x>rice for their product. The motion waa, bv leave, withdrawn. Heavy Taxation. Lord Liverpool directed attention to the urgent need for economy in public expenditure, and moved for papers. The reason why industry was depressed he attributed to the excessive taxation of everybody in the land. In the matter of taxation per capita, the tlnited Kingdom headed the list.

The> figure of our late adversaries waa £5 6s sd. He could not see, even if the saval Conference was a success, that there would he any material sum available to meet the very high liabilities being incurred at present. He suggested that economy in the smallest matters, and especially in civil expenditure, national and local, should be practised. . . Lord Onslow asked if it was not possible that the fall in trade and the increase in unemployment were connected with the avowed policy of extravagance in expenditure which the present Government seemed to favour. It seemed to him that no real effort was made by the Government to consider their financial position. The burden of expenditure fell on industry. A belief had grown up that schemes could be financed from the hidden treasure of the idle rich. The money lrom the pockets of the idle rich would not go. far to finance the Government schemes.

Need of Scientific Methods. Lord Thomson (Secretary for Air) said the only item on which, it was possible to effect real reductions was the fighting Services. The Government were committed to £21.000,000 extra on the social services,, but £14,000,000 of that was accounted for by unemployment insurance. The extra ' cost could have been adequately met out of the money lost to the unemployment insurance fund through the reckless finance of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer. The remaining sum necessary to make up the £21,000,000 was due to the extension of widows' pensions. The Government was endeavouring to effect economies in the fighting Services on the only basis justifiable. He had personally argued that the only way to effect economies was by scientific methods, by the substitution of machines for men, such as had been going on in the War Office for the last five years. It could only be done gradually, but they could speed up economies by a vigorous application of these methods. There was also the same need for scientific methods with : regard to trade and commerce. The j Government had, therefore, set up an : Economic Advisory Council, which i would only cost £6500 a year. .< • ; "The Chancellor of the Exchequer," ; Lord Thomson, added, "is a man of j strong character. In dealing with my : own estimates I have been petrified almost by his tenacity of purpose and j my own moderation." (Laughter.) -. Lord Onslow: He has not told us what he is going to save. Lord Thomson: I should like to know myself. We hope to save a certain amount of money on the fighting Services. How much will largely depend on the negotiations proceeding at the present moment. The motion was, by leave, withdrawn.

Th» figures were:— £ s d United Kingdom Australia Now Zealand ... ... 15 ... 12 ... 12 2 8 9 9 7 11 The comparison the late war was:France United Statei Italy , ... with our Allies in £ s. d. „. 8 5 10 ... 6 1 11 ... 3 8 9