A STORMY DEBATE

Press, Volume LXVI, Issue 13904, 1 December 1910, Page 7

A STORMY DEBATE

* — THE HINE CHARGES. ANGRY SCENES. THAT "MYSTEROUS PAMPHLET." A FIGHTING SPEECH BY THE PRIME MINISTER, CHARGES AND COUNTERCHARGES. (srr.axL to "the muss.") WELLINGTON. November 30. \fter the Telegraph Office closed at two o'clock this morniiig, tho debate on tho report of the Hine Allegations Committee was continued in the House ot l'.e;-»resentatives. AN AMENDMENT. . Mr James Allen moved as an amendment "That the report of tho Hin« Committee be agreed to, except so tar is it referred to the Te Akau and I-lax-bourne Estates, and the letter from Mr Syraes to Mr McCluggage. After giving a definition of "Tammanyism, he traced the circumstances under which the letter was written, and held that it constituted'a threat. He also reviewed the history of the Te Akau block and the tribal disputes appertaining to it. There was unquestionable evidence that Mr Kaihau had, taken £2000 for conducting the sale of j 13,1)00 acres to the Crown, £vUO of which went to pay the costs of his i counsel. The Government had to answer for the legislation affecting the sale of the Te Akau block, which was not a clean transaction, in his opinion. Touching on the Flaxbourno case, Mr Allen said there was no evidence to show that the Hon. T. K. Macdonaid got a share of the £165 paid to -ir Wilson, his partner, but the latter's evidence was far from satisfactory. The Speaker referred to the constant interruptions during the debate, and threatened to exercise his authority and have the offenders suspended. The Hon. J. A. Millar said that some. Opposition members had got into tne House by means of a purloined letter, which was as ugly an incident as he could remember in public life. Tiie text of the letter could not be construed into a threat, as Mr Symes gave the journal a free hand to support or oppose him at the election. It was admitted by counsel for Mr Hine that there was no charge against the present Government, and the evidence showed that the administration was untainted with Tammanyism. He replied to Mr Allen's remarks on the Te Akau block, which, he said, were unfair to Mr Kaihau. The latter had worked for his tribe in various Courts as agent, and it was for his services in connection therewith that he received £2000. Mr Hine could get a complete verdict neither from the House nor the country.' MR T. E. TAYLOR AND THE OPPOSITION. Mr T. E. Taylor said Mr Massey had declared that many members of Parliament were becoming lax in their idea of their Parliamentary duties. Mr Massey was prepared to slander half the members of the House for party purposes. Mr Speaker: "Slander" must bo withdrawn. Mr Taylor: I will say "libel." Mr Speaker: No, that won't do. Mr Taylor: Well, I -withdraw. Continuing, Mr Taylor said he had no doubt that Mr Symes, by his letter, designed to commit a corrupt act. The charges against Mr Major lapsed. Mr Symes did something that was wrong, but his constituents dealt with him. As regards Mr Kaihau, he believed he should be called upon to resign. His conviction was that Mr Hine was not after evil so much as he was after the Executive of the day. Ho believed Mr Hine should apologise to the Ministry and Parliament for his_ aspersions. In return, Parliament might thank Mr Hine for an attempt to improve public life. There was probably not a cleaner Assembly in the world than the New Zealand Parliament. Mr Hine had known few men and many cattle; he ought to learn from this experience that there were other honest men besides himself and tho party, to which he belonged. In his opinion tho Opposition had made their biggest blunder of tho last five years. There was a spirit of malignant hostility in a section of the 1 Press against Liberalism. Lately there had been in circulation the most discreditable piece of literature __ which had ever been circulated in connection with New Zealand's politics. The pamphlet in question was designed to injure, politically, a man with whom he was in frequent disagreement, the Prime Minister. The pamphlet was the greatest scandal that had ever occurred. Whether the Opposition members approved of it, he did not know. (Opposition dissent.) It was quite certain, however, that tho pamphlet was being received with gleeful approval by thousands s>f people who supported -the Opposition in this country. It had been approved by men who hoped that it was going to have a destructive effect against tha man at whom it was aimed. The kind of publication to which he had referred was % being received with approval by certain newspapers in New Zealand, which placed no restriction upon political hostility. Several Opposition members demanded, "Name, name." Mr Taylor replied that he would. He had scarcely ever picked up a copy of an Opposition paper in Wellington that did not contain most unadulterated poison with regard to political views. "IT IS A LlE.'' Mr Anderson: It is a lie. Mr Herdman: Stick to what you said. Thero was then a period of disorder. Mr Taylor accused Mr Anderson of having "said "It is a lie."' Mr Anderson said the remarks that were being made by the member for Christchurch North were so far from the truth Mr Speaker: You must withdraw that. Mr Anderson: They are very incorrect. Mr T. E. Taylor: The member for Mataura said, in reply to some statement I made, "It is a lie." The Speaker said he had not heard these words, but if they were used, they must be withdrawn. Mr Anderson withdrew-the words. Mr Taylor, continuing, said the spirit of the Opposition Press eneouragea the publication of the pamphlet. The malignity one discovered in the Opposition newspapers was the development of the last year or two. A SCATHING ATTACK. Mr Massey said Mr Taylor was a good hand ai using the knife when he got behind the person be liked to attack. His speech that night was an apology for the Government—a weak, hopeless, demented apology for the Government. He was delighted that the public would never again associate the member for Christchurch North

with the men on whose benches he presumed to sit. Ho had been a curse to any party to which he had been attached. He was glad Mr Taylor woud in future be associated with tho party on the other side of the House. One thing that tho Opposition fare years ago res-retted was the fact that they were supposed to be associated with the honourable gentleman in the attacks he made against Mr Seddon. He "(Mr Massey) remembered the mean tactic used in the attack agtr%r.t Mr Sed- <_ on -_ a ttacks with which he had not too slightest sympathy. He had said so then and ho said so now. Mr iaylor had tried to associate the Opposition with a wretched pamphlet; he denied that absolutely. If any man said that any one on the Opposition side of tho House was responsible for the pamphlet, his statement was absolutely false. No' man on his side had had anything to do with it. and to state he had was one of the meanest things that could bo done. ~ . ~ A Voice: Tho pamphlet is worthy ot him. _, _ ~ Mr Massey -went on to say that tne pamphlet in question was apparently produced for profit. Wore Mr Taylor s hands clean? He (Mr Massey) was behind the scenes in regard to a certain law suit at Christchurch which Mr Taylor knew of. If it over happened to be his lot to tell what occurred, he would bo sorry for him. i Mr Taylor: I challenge you to say anything you know about it. Mr Massey said if lie could get leavo he would use the information on the platform in -Christchurch. and there would be an end to Mr Taylor's political career. Mr Taylor: You would have done itlong ago if you could. Proceeding. Mr Massey referred to the remark by Mr Millar that 1 the Symcii letter was purloined by supporters of tho Opposition party. If any member would say that outside, he felt sure he would bo immediately served with a writ. Bj- whom was the name of Mr Seddon introduced into the enquiry? The Chairman placed Mr Seddon's name in it time after time. He (Mr Massey) believed that there was no more contemptible action than to attack a dead man. Did the Prime Minister agree with him? Sir Joseph Ward: Yes. Mr Massey then referred to certain statements winch Sir Joseph Ward had made against two then deceased politicians in 1886. Who mado thoso remarks? He asked the Prime Minister, who was now accusing members of the Opposition of attacking a dead man. Sir Joseph Ward : The only difference is that what I said was true. Mr Massey: I am sorry to hear you say that. You are not ashamed, but some of your friends aro heartily ashamed. Continuing, Mr Massey said he fought Seddon openly and straightforward. Could Mr Taylor say that? In the course of some disorder at this stage, Mr Taylor used tho word "unmanliness," but he had to withdraw it. Proceeding, Mr'Massey said that the Government had not cleared themselves from the statement that Mr Kaihau conducted the sale of the Te Akau Block to the Governments He was glad that the Prime Minister had brought down at tbe enquiry the resolution which stood in his name. "If he had not, then he (Mr Massey) would have done so. Sir Joseph Ward: But you would not have carried it. Mr Allen: What an extraordinary statement. Mr Massey: W r ho will now say that it | was not a partisan committee ? Mr T. E. Taylor rose to a personal explanation. He supposed Mr Massey had referred to the ca6© with Captain Seddon. Mr Massey: Yes. Mr Taylor: He suggested that if he were free he could tell the House and the country of certain things in that case that would be to my discredit; 1 wish to give him the most absolute freedom. It was a case of vain boasting. I neither did nor said anything in that case that was not absolutely in accord with the rules of all games, and absolutely above board. It was a stiff fight, and I fought it almost entirely alone. I give him a free hand, and the proof will be that he cannot do what he said he would do. Mr G. W. Russell said the Leader of the Opposition had not improved his position or that of his party by his. second speech that night. If the facts were known, this enquiry was not Mr Hino's, but the Opposition's. He was the monkey -who had been used to draw the chestnuts out of the fire, and when the cheques for the heavy legal expenses had to be met, it would not fall on Mr Hine's banking account alone. No one could expect Mr Kaihau to display tho same nicities of political honour as, say, Mr Herries (at this time Mr Herries was in charge of the Opposition). Mr Herries: I think ho knows as much as I do. (Laughter). Continuing, Mr Russell said that when he was on a visit to another colony, he heard a man say that Mr Seddon died worth a lot of "money; he said his authority was a leading busi-' ness man in Wellington. In reply he had told him that he was sure the Seddon family -would give him a fair allowance if he could find it for them. At this stage (4 a.m.) the debate was adjourned until 2.30 p.m.