CITY COUNCIL.

Press, Volume XIX, Issue 2808, 2 May 1872, Page 3

CITY COUNCIL.

SPECIAL MEETING-WEDNESDAY, May 1.

j. A special meeting of the City Council was 4ield yesterday afternoon at three o'clock. Present—His Worship the Mayor, Crs Hart, Anderson, Pratt, Hobbs, Jones, Bishop, and' Jameson. His Worship the Mayor said that the reason the Council had been summoned to meet oh such short notice was, from the fact of My Shand, the representative of Mr George Warner, calling upon him (the Mayor) that morning and informing him that the Fire Brigade, by playing over Mr i Warner's sTbre," in Hereford "street, on the preceding evening, at their quarterly practice, had damaged a quantity of. goods' | therein. He further stated, that forcible entry to the premises had been obtained, and ,-bne of the gates had been broken open and damaged. As no - such a, claim had ever come before the Council, or so far as he could .find out, before .anyJEormer... Council, he (the Mayor) thought it advisable to call a special meeting of the Council, and lay the matter before them, so that the subject might be thoroughly (gone into. Cr. Bishop, he believed, was present during the practice; and would doubtless be able to give the Council some explanation Of the circumstances out of which the-alleged damage arose. The only iniorrhation 'on the matter that he (the Mayor) possessed -was what hehad been told by Mr Shand,;because he had felt it better to keep away from the store, as it mightlje looked upon in some way as an acceptance of : responsibility, until it was'proved that damage had been done, and that the Council was liable for it. During the day he had called upon Mr David Craig, the agent for the New Zealand Insurance Company in Christchurch, who was also hon. secretary to the Association of Insurance Companies here, who expressed his regret that this should have occurred, but said he did not think that any blame accrued to the Fire Brigade, as. they had simply done what had been done by fire brigades in other*. parts op similar occasions. He ' would consult with the insurance companies and see what.cou.d be done, but they could not take any active steps, in it, because it did not come under their cognisance. Had it occurred while a fire was in progress, of course they would have to pay the losses so I incurred; ■•■-••--

Cr. Anderson 6ftid, that bo far as he was concerned, like many of the Councillors, lie knew nothing of the' matter beyond what had been heard outside that day, and he would like to know what was the amount of the damage said to have been done. His Worship the Mayor said that Mr Shand had said the damage done was considerable, as the water had come through the roof on to sugar and other perishable goods. At present there was no official statement before them of the damage sustained, and he could only tell them what he had said, and upon which he had acted in summoning the Council that day. If the Council were of opinion they were liable they would have to appoint an assessor on their part to go over the goods and assess the damage done, in conjunction with one appointed by Mr George Warner. Cr. Jones desired to point out to the Council that they had nothing before them in the shape of a claim, nor had they any evidence of how the damage occurred. It might have occurred from the windows or skylights being left open in the store. All they bad was a statement made to the Mayor by Mr Shand, but there was nothing official before the Council, and he did not think they could do anything in the matter until it was fully put before the Council. He for one was quite in favor of any damage done by their officers being compensated for, if it was ascertained that such had been the case.

The Mayor said he did not know whether they had any right to practice over private persons' premises without permission having been first obtained.

Cr Jameson said he thought it was pretty clear that damage had been done, and that being*the case he would at once say that the Council wonld be liable for damage done by its servants, and should make compensation when the amount was ascertained—[hear, hear] —but he thought that the Fire Brigade had no right to go into the premises of private persons without their consent having been first obtained, as he himself would not like such a course to be adopted with regard to his own property. However, as had been said, there was nothing tangible before them, and he thought that until some claim was made they could not consider the matter.

Cr Hobbs said that when coming down, that day he met one of the persons employed at Mr Warner's, who had told him that the estimated damage was something like £200, as in addition to the damage done to goods,

the gates of entrance- had been left open by the members of the brigade, thus leaving goods of value exposed, and it was not known what goods might have beeu taken away.

Cr Pratt thought that the Brigade should not go into the of private persons aud leave gates open in the manner described. In some instances the Brigade had played upon the roofs of houses to wash them, "but not he believed without having first obtained the permission of ther owner. He had been told that ij arose from an accident in the branch of the hose being turned on to the roof by mistake, and that the water had got in under the roof. He felt it was due to the Council that some explanation should be given them from the Superintendent of the Brigade as to how the damage did occur, as at present they were quite in the dark about it. Mr Superintendent Harris should be present, so as to enable them to get some evidence on the matter. Cr. Bishop said that he had been present on the occasion, not as Chairman of the Fire Brigade Committee, but simply acting as timekeeper. So far as he could see, there was no more done on the occasion than was usual on the recurrence of the practices of the Brigade. He had been told that, so far from breaking open the gate as had been stated, the gate of Mr Warner's premises was open, through which the Brigade weut. He did not know this of his own knowledge, but he had been so informed. Mr Shand and Mr Ponsford had waited upon the Superintendent of the Fire Brigade, at the Lichfield street station, and whilst there the Superintendent asked the branchmen whether any extra, amount of water had been poured over the roof of Mr Warner's store, and they said that there had not. He thought they could not do anything in the matter at that meeting, as the question was not fully before them, no damage having been stated ; and to ask a person who alleged damage had been done to assess .the damages alone himself, without any person on their side was ' not right', arid he thought the best way would be to take steps to ascertain what damage had been done. The night,was very dark, and it was hardly known where the branch Wad beipg played over. Cr«-Hart said, that like the other councillors who had spoken on the matter, he was perfectly in the dark as to the circumstances of the case, and also of the amount of damage. All he knew was from hearsay, which was not anything to go upon. He thought Mr Warner should be requested to forward to them an account of the damage alleged to have been done, and then they would have something tangible to go upon. ' Cr. Anderson thought they would not do any good if they discussed the. matter all day without having anything before them. He thought that the matter should be left in the hands of his Worship the Mayor, who was a practical business man, and fully conversant with the class of .goods reported to havebeendamaged,andcouldthusg^vean idea of what the amount of damage Really was. He would mo ye " That the mafctet be left in the hands of his Worship the Mayor, and that he be requested to take such steps in the matter as he may think advisable under the circumstances, and report to. the Council at an adjourned meeting." Cry Calvert seconded the motion. Cr. Jones wished to ask Cr. Bishop whether on previous occasions the consent of persons had been obtained previous to such being done, and such was obtained on Tuesday evening ; further, whether anyone connected with the firm was present on the occasion, and did not object. If this was the ca_e it relieved the Council of some of -the responsibility, although he for one would advocate the Council at once paying for any damage sustained by reason of the acts of their servants, when such damage i had been thoroughly ascertained and found to have taken plabe. 1 '■■■'■■'■■:■ ' : Cr.; Bishop said the whole conduct of the practice was in the hands of the superintendent, and he (Cr. Bishop) could not give an -answer>to the question* ■;■ j . At this stage of the discussion, the following letter was received by His Worship the Mayor, and read by him to the Council: — * "Christchurch, New Zealand, J "Mayjl, 1872. •' Mr W- Harris, Superintendent,' and thei Members of the Fire Brigade,-- - 'Mfentlemen,—EnclosedTbeg to hand you the amount of my claim for goods damaged by water during the 'evening of the 30th April last, by your Brigade pumping on my store in Hereford street. I have to state that hiy bookkeeper, Mr Ponsford, happened to arrive at the store shortly after your Brigade had done pumping, and on being aware of the damage done, cured assistance to remove my goods, or the damage would have been imuch greater. I hold the goods damaged, as per list enclosed, at your risk and expense, and would recommend you to remove the same as early as possible, as. they will not improve in j their present condition. I- would also feel obliged by your, handing the Ichequ'd as'per I enclosed account, amounting to, .£l7l *$s 6d, to avoid further expense, and compelling mc to resort to legal proceedings,. , , : •• I have, &c, . ' . j " George Warneb." ' - The enclosure; was a bill enumerating the various items damaged, ranging from a pocket of hops and cases of" champagne, to milk, dishes axideau de cologne. Cr. Jones said now they had something before them, and he thought it would be as well if a committee were appointed to examine the. account furnished, and report to the Council upon the matter. - His Worship the Mayor-said that it was not at all feasible to appoint such a committee to report to the Council, as by that

time the perishable goods, such as BUgar,:&c., would be entirely destroyed; but he thought j the best way Would "be to get a surveyor to I go over the goods, in company with one ap* pointed by Mr Warner, and it would then be seen to what extent the damage sustained; and as a. good deal of the goods i spoken of in the till annexed to the letter were gooda-which could not have sustained much damage, such as champagne,, maraschino, curaooa, kc, these might be sold by auction, and the difference between the price. obtained and the market price would be the amount the Council would have to pay. _ ~ Cr. Hart—We do not yet know whether, Mr Warner will agree to the survey being held. The MayorT-Mr Shand expressed his willingness to do so to ine to-day. Cr. Anderson pressed his motion which was also supported by Councillor Hobbs. . The motion on being put to the Council was agreed to unanimously. Cr. Jameson said he thought they should have Mr Superintendent Harris there to explain matters, aa they Tiad a' very large loss to meet, and there was no explanation as to the way in which it had occurred. Cr. Bishop said that Mr Harris had particularly enquired of the branchmen whether more force than usual had been used so as to cause the injury complained and the answer had been in the negative. Cr. Jameson would desire to call the attention of the Counoil to the fact that they were called upon to expend a large amount of the ratepayers' maney, and he for one would like to have a full and explicit explanation of the matter. His Worship the Mayor said that Mr Harris had expressed his wish to attend and give the utmost information in his power. Mr Harris, being in attendance, was called in. His Worship the Mayor, addressing Mr Harris, said that the Council wished him to give an account of what bad taken place on the evening in question, and also, aa to whether permission had been obtained to play over the building. Mr Harris said that it had not, nor had it been usual to ask for it here, nor, so far aa he was aware, in any part of the old country. On this occasion he was told by Mr Shand that the gate had been broken open and a forcible entry made into the premises, bnt the branchmen whom he had questioned on the subject, and who were two of the steadiest men in the Brigade had assured him that it was not so ; tha*j the gate was open, and that as they were going in Mrs Shand was coming out. She was naturally somewhat alarmed at first, but on being told who they were, told them not to flood the yard, and passed out. He had been frequently asked to play

upon buildings for the purpose of washing the roofs, and only in one case, so far aa he could recollect, was objection made, and that by Mr W. K. Wilson, of Oxford Terrace, and on this being made to him, he immediately ordered the men to desist, and they had never played upon the house since. He was of opinion that the damago spoken of arose from the fact of the gutters getting full, aud beiug unable to carry off tho water which got up under the iron tiles. One engine only, which threw at the rate of 450 gallons per minute, was throwing water over the store, the other engine being placed further up Hereford street, although there might have been one branch from the second engine playing upon it for a few minutes. The night being dark he conld not say precisely in which direction the engines were working at tho time, but from enquiries made from tho branchmen he was enabled to state positively that there was not more than the ordinary volume of water thrown on the occasion, nor was there any extra amount of force put on. He did not think Mr Shand was present at tho time, nor any one connected with Mr Warner's establishment. So far as he was aware there was never any objection made to tha drill of the Fire Brigade being carried ont r as if this was not done the efficiency of th« Brigade could not be kept up; it being no us» to keep the men squirting up and down thestreet for an hour at a stretch. Cr. Hart then moved "That the Council do adjourn to half-past ten o'clock this day," which was agreed to. and the meeting terminated. . ■ . . . "", '.: -~~~