CITY FIRE APPLIANCES.

Auckland Star, Volume XXXII, Issue 152, 28 June 1901, Page 3

CITY FIRE APPLIANCES.

CONFERENCE WITH THE

COUNCIL

A conference was held at the Municipal oflice yesterday afternoon between Ihe sub-committee appointed :by i lie Chamber of Commerce (at the ivqu.sl of the public meeting called by that body) and the Finance Commit'lee oi ihe City Council, in respect to the me appliances oi Auckland, ilirt Worship Ihe Mayor (Br. J. L. ( ■■iinplicll) was prcM nf, also the

IC.. i: Clerk (Mr Wilson), and Councillor Dignan. who, as chairman of the Finance Coiuinitlcc, presided. The depulaiion consist* d of Messrs 1). R. Caldwell (President or ihe Chamber of Commerce. > Collision, (secrclary), 11. ('. Tewstcy. A. M. Myers, Craves Ait-kin. ,1. Hull, Robertoit (Hi-ill her and Uoberlon). J. Kirker, \V. Thorue, A. 11. Nathan, Dean, I"). Coldie, ami Superinteildeiil Hugo (Chief ol" the Wellington fire Brigade).

Mr Caldwell, in introducing the depulaiion, mentioned that the Chamber of Commerce had passed a resolution deploring the inefficiency of the .'ire Brigade appliances, and they had been appointed lo try and obtain ;i statement as to what the Council intended lo provide in the shape of up to dale fire extinguishing

appliances. Mr Dignan said ihe Council had received designs for a new lire brigade station, and he could assure the deputation it was intended to carry ilie mailer through. Any suggestion I lie deputation cared to make would have immediate consideration.

Mr I), (.'oldie contended that outsiders should no! interfere with the Council in this matter, lie expressed pleasure al Mr Hugo's visit, :uu\ was glad that gentleman agreed with him that it was wrong in principle to attach two or three leads of hose to one hydrant. Thai had been done in Auckland, and also at Wellington before Mr Hugo look charge there, the result being simply to diminish the power of Ihe water. With regard to what the Council had done they all knew thai in January the Council sen! Home for the best and latest telescope ladder lo reach the highest building in Auckland. That was now on the water, and the 3000 ft of hose, ordered at the same time, was now in Auckland. The Council had also borrowed I'-000 for the equipment of a tire brigade station. At. the time the money was borrowed the Council contemplated using a site of their own in Wakefiekl-street, but, after conference with the Chairman of the Fire Underwriters* Association and Mr Russell, of the South British Insurance Co., they purchased for £..100 a site in Pitt-street, which was considered an ideal site. That left only £901) of the borrowed money to equip the station. The Council was not able last session of Parliament to get through the Bill placing the cost of maintaining the (ire brigade on the Government, the insurance companies and the municipality. The statement had been made that it was no good urging that sorl of thing, because the insurance companies would simply regulate their rates according to their risks. His reply to that iva.s that the insurance companies regulated their rates to cover their risks, and also to make a large profit, and he wished to remind the representatives of insurance companies that at last meetin:;- of the Municipal Conference in Wellington there was a very strong desire to start municipal tire insurance, and if the fire insurance companies would not pay their quota to the maintenance of the brigades, municipal lire insurance would come, and they could depend upon it that if Ihe municipalities took the risks, I hey would also take the rates. The Council was now prepared to spend £10.000 or £ 15,000 to give the city up-to-date appliances, trusting to get the Hill through this session, but even it' the Hill did not go through the work would be done.

Mr. A. M. Myers said what the deputation complained of was that for the last two years the City Council had been endeavouring to get" a Bill through Parliament whereby the insurance companies and the Government would have to pay a proportion of the cost of the (ire brigade, and while thai had been going on no advance had been made. It was not a question of finding the money. It would have been within the means of the City Council to have made great improvements without much delay. Mr. Goldie had, he admitted, done excellent work for the city, but, as business men they respectfully but (irmly look exception to Mr. Goldie's policy on (ire brigade matters. In view of the growing requirements of the city, they believed the lime had arrived when these requirements should be catered for by the Council in a proper and up-to-date manner. To make the appliances ecpial to the requirements of the city, certain general principles should be followed. 1. There should be an up-to-date fire alarm system. 2. A steam lire engine should be procured, capable of throwing water 1o the top of the highest building in Auckland. He believed the, majority of the present mains were adequate for all reasonable purposes, but others of them were not adequate, and it was absolutely necessary to get a steam fire engine. The deputation expressed no opinion regarding what the capacity of the engine should be; that should be decided by the City Council. _. The establishment and equipment of a regularly organised fire department. The present department was not organised in any shape or form. They should have a thoroughly up-to-date man, capable of organising the whole department, of making every man efficient in every detail, and of running the brigade on the same principles as characterised the greatest fire brigades in the old world. 4. A sufficiency of water. He understood there was no possible chance of the auxiliary supply being available before March next. That only showed the necessity of giving this matter immediate attention. They should not allow the thing to drift for another season or two. Probably with the help of a steam fire engine' the water supply would be sufficient for all necessary requirements. 5. Proper building regulations, stringently carried out. The present regulations did not go far enough. 0. No delay should take place" in awaiting the settlement of the proportion to be paid by the City Council, the Government and the in-

surance companies. The insurance companies fixed their rates according to prevailing conditions. Fire insurance rates had been raised lately, and when policy-holders complained the insurance companies referred to the great, risks they were running, and pointed out that the whole of Queenstreet might be burned down any night. There was no denying if. The question of adjustment should not debar the City Council from giving the matter immediate attention. 7. The Harbour Board, having ordered ;i lire tug and steam fire iloat, which would be ready in about six weeks or Iwo months, why should the City Council not arrange with the Board, who would have fires banked all night, to have sufficient hose, or, if necessary, even lay a main through Queen-street, to protect the enormous amount of valuable property there. 'Some of the largest warehouses were erected in (hat immediate vicinity, and there was no reason why advantage should not be taken of the water supply in the harbour to prevent serious loss Inking place from a lire occurring near the jetties. 8. If the City Council brought forward a scheme that had the confidence of the people, they would be quite willing to support a loan to give the city an up-to-date fire brigade system, water supply, efficient sanitary arrangements, and anything else necessary. Of course it must be a scheme that had the confidence of the people, aud Hie city must have an up-to-date engineer, in whom the people had confidence.

Mr Coldie said all the things asked for by the deputation had already been attended to by the Council.

Mr Robertson asked Mr Goldic how it was if the water supply was all right, the. lifts had to be cut oil" in the middle of winter.

Mr Goldie explained this was an unusual season, yet during Ihe summer and very little heavy rain in the autumn. The result was that the flow from the western springs fell to nearly nothing, but since the rains set in the now had risen two inches per day, and would be all right for the rest of the winter, and uex-t summer the auxiliary supply would be available.

Mr Myers said he believed the ratepayers would willingly pay a special rate to enable, the Council to properly equip the fire brigade. Mr Goldie said there was not the slightest need for that. The revenue of the city was £10,000 more than a year or two ago. It was only a question as to whether the Council was to bear the, whole expense or the other people should pay their proportions. Now, with respect to Mr Myers' statement about getting an up-to-date engineer and staff. The fact was the best men were not always selected, and if the best men were chosen they could not be sure of their being accepted by the people. If one man was empowered to select the best men it would be a different matter, but the Council, like individuals, raip-ht err in its judgment as to which was the best man.

Mr W. Thorne referred to the building regulations aud said it was wrong to have a clause at the end empowering the Council to grant permits not in accordance with the regulations. Some people were compelled to put up brick houses, while others were permitted to put up wooden ones. If a law was made it should be adhered to. He would like to know if similar power would be in the hand', of the Council in the new regulations.

Mr Godie said it was the modifiea^ tion clause to which Mr Thorne referred, which Mr Thorne understood clearly enough when he built that large wooden house near the Choral [Tall. Thai clause gave the Council power where it was considered no harm would result to allow wooden buildings to be put up within the brick area, in such places for instance .as the gully on the, eastern side of Queen-st., and other similar places, where people were scarcely likely to go to the expense of brick buildings. The by-laws would, however, be duly advertised, and anyone could object to them at that time.

Mr Caldwell asked whether Mr Hugo could give the meeting any information on the question of tire appliances.

Mr Hugo said that South Australia was different to any place he knew of, for there they had a board to manage the tire brigades, which was maintained as follows: Municipal corporations contributed two-ninths, Government three-ninths, and the insurance companies four - ninths. (Hear, hear.) The insurance companies made the same threats there as here about raising the rates, but although contributing one-fourth the cost of the brigade, the rates up to three years ago were so low that the companies were not paying office expenses. A meeting was then held and the rates wero raised, but that was met by a State insurance company. Even the increased rates in South Australia, did not approach anything like what they were in New Zealand at the present time. (Applause.) Mr Kirker: "But there the buildings are brick." Mr Hugo said he was speaking of the whole colony. There were thirteen of the larger towns under, the Fire Brigade Board how. The whole colony was worked from the City of Adelaide itself. They manufactured their own appliances, such as castings, harness, etc., for the whole colony. A man before he was allowed to outside stations had to be two years in a manufacturing department.. At some towns there wtfuld perhaps be just one permanent man, and the rest volunteers. In Adelaide and at Port Adelaide they were all permanent men. Some towns had steam fire engines, others were worked by gravitation water supply. The point he wished to illustrate was that prin r to this system being introduced the losses by fire were very heavy, but had now been reduced very considerably.

Mr Kirker said what they wanted to k;uow was the best appliances and best equipment requisite to -put out fires.

Mr. Goldie said there was the question of how far thati meeting was justified in asking Mr. Hugo to furnish such information when that gentleman had been engaged by the Council to furnish a report upon such matters.

Mr. Dignan explained "that all the schemes were before the Fire Brigades Committee, which would meet next Monday. In the meantime the Council considered it advisable to have some expert evidence on the question of fire appliances, so Mr. Hugo had been asked to furnish a

report as to what he thought wotdd best suit Auckland.

Mr. Kirkcr agreed that under such circumstances Mr. Hugo should not be asked to furnish the information.

Mr. Caldwell said he only asked for particulars as regards South Australia.

Mr. Myers said he thought -Mr. Coldie was right in not asking Mr. Hugo to give a statement under the circumstances. He must, say the present position was not satisfactory so far as the deputation was concerned. It was to have been expected that at least some official statement would have been submitted to the deputation, but the Council had not seen fit to do that. He hoped that before next meeting the Council would agree upon a policy which could be stated to the deputation, and the advisability of tin; scheme proposed be discussed.

Mr. Coldie suggested that the conference be adjourned for three weeks, as by thai, time they would also have Mr. Hugo's report.

Mr. P. A. Vaile said he was disappointed with the results of the meeting, lie thought, that the deputation would have met the Fire Brigade. Committee and gone into matters, but it seemed they had to receive all information from an ex-Mayor.

Mr. Dignan said he could give a lot. of information, but he did not think if. was advisable at present.

Mr. Vaile asked if the Council had got the proper horses with appliances to pull the hook and ladder carriage, fo a fire.

The Town Clerk (Mr Wilson) pointed out that there was no accommodation for horses at the present lire brigade station.

Mr. Dignan said he knew from the accounts that provision was made, last fortnight for acquiring the necessary gear.

Mr. Vaile said if they were to wait for another Ihree weeks they might have another big fire in the meantime. The fire escape ordered would be useless for one side of Queenstreet owing to the telegraph wires. It should be kept at the top of Pittstrect, and not by the wharf. They would also require smaller ones, thai could be quickly brought to any spot. He also understood that eight men would need to sleep near the lire escape. The present plant of the Auckland Fire Brigade was about 2~> years behind the time.

Mr. Goldic said Hie Municipal Corporations Act provided thai every house must have a lire escape, so there should not be the need for so many (ire escapes at the station. He then' moved that the meeting adjourn for three weeks. Mr. W. Thome said lie felt very strongly about the water supply. Mr. Dignan said he knew that Mr. Thorne was under a misapprehension about the water supply.

Mr. Thorne said that Mount Eden was 46. r)ft above sea level, and he was informed that the head waters at "^ihotapu were SSO feet, or 120 feet higher, and that with a continuous pipe water would gravitate from there to the Mount Eden reservoirhe got that from Mr. Wilson—yet the project was to run it to the Ponsonby reservoir, and then pump it to Mount Eden. The Ponsonby supply was useless for fire purposes on the upper levels. If it cost £10.000 it would be better to enlarge the Mount, Eden reservoir and gravitate the water to it from Nihotapu direct. They would get the pressure and save cost of pumping. Mr. Goldie said he understood the water was to gravitate.to the Khyber Pass reservoir, which was 300 feet above the level of Auckland, and would be all that was required. As for Mount Eden, the whole supply was 360,000 gallons' weekly, which could be pumped in twelve hours. Mr. Graves Aickin said if showed a great want, of interest on the part of' those members of the committee that had not thought it worth while to meet such an important deputation. Of course, they nil knew Mr. Kidd's absence was due to illness.

Mr. Vaile said it would be a mistake not to impress upon the Council the urgent necessity for having horses to pull the hook and ladder carriage, which he considered a scandalous disgrace. Mr. Dignan said he would inform the committee, but in more temperate language. Mr Caldwell thanked those who attended, especially Mr. Hugo, and the conference then adjourned for three weeks, as suggested by Mr. Goldie.