DEPUTATIONS TO MINISTERS.

Auckland Star, Volume XXIII, Issue 4393, 25 February 1884, Page 3

DEPUTATIONS TO MINISTERS.

The Kotorua Railway,

Tho Land Endowment Question.

A deputation from the above Company, consisting of Dr. Campbell, Messrs T, Peacock, M.H.R., J. M. Clark, Thos, Morrin, John Batger (directors), and Jas. Stewart (Managing Engineer), waited upon tho Hons. W. Rolleston (Minister ot Lands) and J. Bryce (Native Minister) at the Crown Lands Office this morning, for tho purposo of discussing with tho Ministers the questions raised in the Company's memo, dated 7th ult„ and getting an answer thereto. That memorandum was as follows; "(1) In view of the altered state of the nativo mind pointing to a willingness to soll laud now included In the district under tho Thermial Springs Act, thus enabling Government to acquire sufficient land to grant to the Railway 30 nor cent, of tlio cost of construction, the directors propose that Government enter into a contracc with the Company for the construction of tho second section of the railway on the basis of theCompanyreeeivingfromGovernroentlanfl equal to 30 per cent, of the cost of construe. tion, in accordance with tho Railway Construction and Land Act. (2) Inasmuch as the second section passes almost entirely through native territory which cannot be rated, and such rate being lost to the Company, it is submitted that Government is justified in making good the deficiency thus arising by an extra endowment of land, the power_o grant such being covered by the Thermal Springs Act; tho Government, therefore, to endeavour ti> acquire from tho natives a free cession of land by way of endowment in lieu of rates; and in the event of the natives declining to grant such endowments without some payment, tho Company to provide the funds necessary to fulfil the conditions under which the natives are willing to cede such endowments. (3) The directors beg to be informed whether tho Government will bo prepared to carry out tbo proposal now submitted, as it is necessary to arrive at a definite conclusion.—From tho directors of the Thames Valley and Rotorua Railway Company (Limited). Auckland, January 7 1884 ''Dr. Campbell, who introduced the deputation, said'that they had been appointed with the object of obtaining an answer to tho memo, which had been forwarded to the Government. That morning It was true that they had received a lottor atating that the Government could not reply until tho Ministers returned to Wellington, but as the deputation had been appointed prior to its receipt, they thought it best under the circumstances to seek an interview. They now wished to furnish any further information that might be required, to elicit from the Ministers an expression of their opinion with regard to tho points set forth in tho memorandum. After somo further preliminary and explanatory remarks on both sides of no particular moment, The Hon. Mr Rolleston said that he was very glad to meet the directors of the Company, and he had no doubt that if they approached the questions they had raised in tho way he desired to see them approached, the interview could not but prove to be mutually beneficial. In tho first place, he would be happy to explain the position in which the matter now stood. The main feature of the question was the possibility of obtaining a cession of land from the natives. As the Company was nwaro, the Government had made attempts by means of interviews with the natives, and through having an officer resident for many weeks in their district, to endeavour to obtain cessions of land, and, as often happened in tho course of negotiations with the natives, the definite result aimed A md which the Company desired was found to be not easily attainable. The Government had been doing its utmost to get settled tie question of endowment by cession, but at the same time it had taken other steps to promote tho construction of the railway by obtaining, as tho Company already know, a. cession of land for the lino by purchase. He was pleased to bo able to say that, barring the unfortunate point ot promptitude which was almost an impossibility in these things, tho Government had progressed steadily, and he thought surely also to some ultimate solution of the difficulty. They had acquired a block of 5,000 acres at Rotorua, and also had a large interest in other blocks. Of course it could not deal with land which did not belong to it, and he was willing, when tho question had progressed to that point that it could deal with the Company, to favourably consider the proposals of a contract. With regard to the second proposal in tho memo. in respect to tho Government making up the deficiency mentioned by an extra allowance of land, tho position was this: that the Government could only deal in accordance with tho law, and any proposal outside the land could not be entertained by tho Government. Ho repeated his assurance that the Government would endeavour to acquire from the natives free cessions of After some discussion upon points raised by Dr, Campbell nnd Mr Peacock,

The Hon. Mr Bryce said that the Government had recently acquired somo blocks of land, ono ospocially of 5,700 acres in area being good land. Ha thought it right te add that there were certain other blocks which the Government was almost in a

position to acquire, which would be available ns an endowment. These would altogether leave tho deficiency from tho 30 per cent, at £19,000, assuming that it was decided to pay the full .'SO per cent 110 would say that thoy might not bo in a position to acquire the remainder in land. They were, however, ondeavouring to acquire land at the present moment, and theso endeavours would be continued„o-nd supposing that the Government got into a position enabling it by acquiring land to grant the 30 per cent, to the Company, it was prepared to make a contract to that effect. As to the second question, he agreed with Mr Rolleston that the Government was not in a position to enter into a contract with regard to it, or rather could not contract under the Railways Construction Act. Air CLARK : It might bo a separate contract, seeing that tho Government is not bound positively to do anything in it boyond what it now contemplates. , Hon. Mr Bryoe : It might bo a separate contract, but it could not bo under the Railways Construction Act. Thoro wos a probability of tho full amount being got nnd being mado up, but as Mr Rolleston had said the Government was not in a position to givo a binding promise to do what was wanted, but it might do this without

tho promise. It might arrange this matter, as a similar question was arranged with the Manawater people about their railway, viz., "if or when tho Government acquire tho

land it will mnko up tho percentage to tho de.sired limit." It was now endeavouring

:o acquire land for that very purpose,

Mr Peacock said that the directors thought that thoy had a right to be placed in the samo position as if tho Government

already held tho land, that is, have tho power to rate, but inasmuch as it was not to bo exercisable they should have somo equivalent for it, and if the natives wore wlllling to cede land

for railway purposes, no did not see why the Government should have any hesitation

n taking it,

The Hon. Mr Bryce replied that he had not gone fully into tho quostlon, but it was likely to turn out that the Government had

not the power of making such an agree ment.

Mr Clark pointed out that the Company within six months would have to face a

liability approaching £150,000. [Mr Stewart, t'130,000,] for the lino to Lichfield; £00,000 mora would be required. £200,000 is stntuory cost of tho lino.

Of course, tho directors had contemplated

tho necessity of calling 10s per pound share of tho capital subscribed. Then, if tho Company went into tho market to raise money by debentures to complete this sec-

tion of tho (mo, all it could offer as security would bo tho ljiin constructed with the

rating power of tho Government and the uncalled capital. Until that was done they could do nothing with tho second section of the lino, vie,, that to Rotorua, which just meant that unless early arrangements rptild be mado which would enable the directors to enter Into a contract for tho second section, it would have to be abondoned.

The Hon. Mr Bryce said Ministers understood this, and Jt accounted for their anxiety to see tho matter settled. Ho had placed that position before tho Maoris. Mr Cf-ABK rejoined that unless thoro was a prospect pf some endowments from tho natives in lieu of raf ing, the Company would not bo justified in entering into a contract. The Hon. Mr Bryck said that this second question was the difficulty, Ho saw no way of gjvjng tho Company an assurance that would represent a money valuo, because thero was no immediate prospect of getting a gratuitous ondorsment, and besides it was doubtful whether tho Government had power to give such an assurance, Mr Clark twitted tbo Government wich having lost the confidence of tlio natives. Mr Dryce denied this.

Mr Clark asked if ministers would allow them to test the willingness of the natives to grant .endowments, their agent being associated for t}j.e purpose with a Government agent. Mr Bryce repliod firmly In tho negativo. After considerable discussion upon this point, Dr Campaell asked if there was any objection to employing a Government agent to move tho natives in the desired direction.

To this no definite reply was givon, tho assurance being merely repeated that tho Government would continue its endeavours, and still had iiopos pi success. Mr Clark bantered tho Ministers upon this phrase, and Dr. Oampiieli, remarked that tho directors would discount these hopes by their sjendor fihances of _tic.,eas. After somo further discussion, the interview tprminated.

ONEimNiii ' Iron Wo_ks. — Mossrs Morrin and Chambers waited upon the Hon. Mr Rolleston in roforencj. to tho harbour lease at the Manukau for which they had applied, and also the remission of wharfage on raw goods. Tho matters were now before tho Harbour Department. Mr Rollesto!. promised tp push the matter to a speeky settlement when ho returned to Wellington.