1.—15.

The following gave evidence, and were questioned by members of the Committee : Charles John McKenzie, President, Civil Service Institute ; Malcolm Fraser, member of the Civil Service Institute ; A. S. Wansborough, Secretary, Civil Service Institute. Discussion ensued concerning the questioning of witnesses, and Mr. Savage moved, That the questioning of witnesses be confined to members of the Committee. Before the motion could be put the Committee adjourned, owing to the House division-bell ringing. The Committee having continued to sit until 4.45 p.m., then adjourned until Tuesday, 29th November, 1932. Tuesday, the 29th Day op Novbmbeb, 1932. The Committee met pursuant to notice at 10.30 a.m. Present: Mr. J. A. Nash (Chairman), Mr. Ansell, Mr. Dickie, Right Hon. Mr. Forbes, Mr. Hargest, Mr. W. Nash, Hon. Sir Apirana Ngata, Mr. Savage, and Mr. Veitch. The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed. Discussion ensued arising out of the motion moved by Mr. Savage at the previous meeting, " That the questioning of witnesses be confined to members of the Committee." Resolved, on motion of the Right Hon. Mr. Forbes, That the Committee adjourn until 11.15 a.m. in order that Mr. Speaker's ruling be obtained. The Committee resumed at 11.15 a.m., and the Chairman reported Mr. Speaker's ruling to the Committee. Resolved, on motion of the Hon. Sir Apirana Ngata, That the Public Service Commissioner and Government Actuary be permitted to put questions to witnesses. Resolved, on motion of Mr. Savage, That a nominated representative of the Public Service organizations and superannuitants be permitted to put questions to witnesses. ° The following were then admitted to the committee-room : Mr. Verschaflelt, Public Service Commissioner ; Mr. Gostelow, Government Actuary ; accredited representatives of the press ; representatives of Government organizations and superannuitants. The following gave evidence, and were questioned by members of the Committee, Public Service Commissioner, and Government Actuary : Ward George Wohlmann, Commissioner of Police, representing the Police Force ; Rupert Samuel Wogan, Acting Secretary, Public Service Superannuation Board. The Committee continued to sit until 1.5 p.m., and it was resolved, on the motion of Mr. J. A. Nash, That the Committee ask leave of the House to sit in the afternoon. The Committee resumed at 3 p.m., when an order of reference granting leave to sit was read. James McDermott, Senior Vice-President, Post and Telegraph Officers' Guild, gave evidence, and was questioned by members of the Committee, the Public Service Commissioner, the Government Actuary, and Mr. Millar for the Public Service organizations. Resolved, on motion of Mr. J. A. Nash, That the Committee ask leave of the House to sit on Friday morning. The Committee continued to sit until 5 p.m., and then adjourned until Friday, 2nd December, 1932, if leave of the House obtained. Tuesday, the 6th Day of December, 1932. The Committee met pursuant to notice at 10.30 a.m. Present: Mr. J. A. Nash (Chairman), Mr. Ansell, Mr. Bodkin, Mr. Dickie, Mr. Hargest, Mr. McCombs, Mr. W. Nash, and Mr. Savage. The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed. The following were admitted to the committee-room : Mr. Verschaflelt, Public Service Commissioner ; Mr. Gostelow, Government Actuary; accredited representatives of the press; representatives of Government organizations and superannuitants. The following gave evidence, and were questioned by members of the Committee, Public Service Commissioner, Government Actuary, and Mr. Millar: Robert Browne Ryder, Delegate from Superannuitants, Palmerston North ; Martin Joseph Lee, Delegate from Superannuitants, Palmerston North; William Marcus Wright, President, Superannuated Public Servants' Association of New Zealand ; John Caughley, on behalf of the Association of Superannuated Public Servants. The' Committee continued to sit until 1 p.m., and, on the motion of Mr. J. A. Nash, it was resolved, That the Committee ask leave of the House to sit in the afternoon. The Committee resumed at 3.30 p.m., when an order of reference granting leave to sit was read. The Committee continued to hear further evidence from Mr. Caughley. Mr. A. M. Samuel, M.P., was present during the afternoon. The Committee continued to sit until 5.30 p.m., and then adjourned until 9.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 7th December, 1932. Wednesday, the 7th Day of December, 1932. The Committee met pursuant to notice at 9.30 a.m. Present: Mr. J. A. Nash (Chairman), Mr. Ansell, Mr. Bodkin, Mr. Dickie, Mr. McCombs, Mr. W. Nash, Hon. Sir Apirana Ngata, and Mr. Savage. The minutes of the previous meeting were read and confirmed. The following were admitted to the committee-room : Mr. Verschaflelt, Public Service Commissioner ; Mr. Gostelow, Government Actuary ; Mr. Millar, representing organizations ; accredited representatives of the press ; representatives of Government organizations and superannuitants.

VI