H. A. GOUDIE.]

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I.—2A.

33. Otherwise the plantations would never have been put there ? —That is so ; and also it meant spending a lot of money there without completing the forestry policy. 34. Mr. Massey.] Are there any other areas of native bush within the vicinity of this pumice area ?—Yes, at Oruanui. 35. How far away is that ? —I do not know how far it is from the proposed terminus of the line, but I think it is about thirty miles. 36. Have you any idea of the quantities ? —Yes, there is a lot of timber there, but I could not tell you how much timber is supposed to be there. I think I remember that in the evidence given before the Royal Commission it was said there was sufficient timber to last for about fifteen years — that is, native timber. 37. Is that close to the tramway of the Taupo Totara Timber Co. ?—That was regarded as tributary to it. 38. Who owned it ? —There is one big block owned by Dr. Rayner, and the Railway Department has another area there. Then, of course, there is a comparatively small amount of timber on the Paeroa Ranges, close to the line at Waiotapu. 39. Are you of the opinion that the Government cannot develop their forest plantations without the construction of the railway ? —Yes, that is my opinion. 40. What is the difference in cost of construction as between railway and road ? —I should think the cost of road-construction would be very high there, because all the metal would have to be brought in. At any rate, we have not got any good metal there handy suitable for a road which would have to carry heavy traffic. 41. Where do the Rotorua people get their metal from ?—From Ngongotaha. 42. The Chairman.] Then it is possible to get metal there ? —Yes, but that is not very highclass metal. 43. Mr. Massey.] At any rate you have no idea of the cost of construction of a suitable road ? — No. 44. And you think that the timber cannot be profitably handled unless you have a railway ? — 1 think so. 45. Mr. Samuel.] I would like to ask you at what age these forests are fit for milling : you say, thirty-five years from the time of planting ? —Yes. 46. This planting was started, if I remember rightly, in about 1900 ?—Yes. 47. And it has been going on continuously ever since ?—Yes. 48. Every season trees have been planted. Then, if we assume that we will have timber ready for milling in another five to seven years, that would be a correct assumption ?—Yes, there will be a small quantity ready. 49. We will say ten years ? —Yes. 50. And then we can safely assume that there will be millions of feet coming on from that date onwards, as long as the planting was kept on —an inexhaustible supply?— Yes, it would be a permanent industry. 51. That tree-planting industry was inaugurated by the late Mr. Seddon when he was in power ?— I think it was. 52. And the object of it was, what ? —To produce timber—to replenish timber. 53. Mr. Lye.] Do you really suggest that the railway freights that would be offering as a result of the forestry operations would warrant the construction of a special railway within the next ten years ?—Yes, I think so. 54. Do you really think that you could find a profitable market for the thinnings after paying freight on the railways —for pulp or firewoood ? —Yes. I think that if you provide means to get these thinnings out you would possibly get the pulping industry started, and that would be a very considerable industry not only to New Zealand but also to the Government, -as far as making the Government plantations pay. The Chairman: Would you give us your Department's view, Mr. Hanson ? Mr. Hanson (State Forest Service) : At present we have no use for the thinnings. That is the greatest problem we are up against; and I can only hope that we will get some pulping plant started to use up these thinnings from the plantations. Mr. Goudie stated that it would be ten years before the timber is ready for milling ; I should say that that is rather optimistic. If we hope for the utilization of timber within ten years we will have to have somebody interested in the project first. 55. Mr. Vaile.] Mr. Goudie, I would like to ask you to give the Committee some account of your service with the Government in the Forestry Department. Would you tell the Committee what service you have rendered to the Government in the Department —how long were you there ? —I started with the Government in 1901 at Rotorua, and I was there until 1926, when I resigned. 56. Mr. Kyle.] Optionally ?—Yes, to take up a better appointment. I practically saw the thing right through, and was in sole charge, and eventually, about 1920, I had about half a million acres of native forests under my control. 57. Mr. Vaile.] You were always in a senior position ? —Yes. 58. It has been suggested that freight cannot be brought for a greater distance than fifteen miles from the railway : can you give the Committee any information about timber which is brought for forty miles to the railway ? —That timber of which I spoke is being carted fifty-five miles to the railway. 59. Have you any idea of the quantity of timber being carted from Te Whaiti to Rotorua ? —No. 60. On the question of subsidiary tram-lines, have you ever heard of a bush being worked without subsidiary tram-lines ?—Never. 61. They have extended many miles ?—Yes. 62. What is the length of the Taupo Totara Co.'s tram-line ?—About forty-five miles.