1.—15.

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[j. READ.

they cat) get more out of life by using the daylight to a greater extent, then they arc justified in adjusting the clock in order to suit their own circumstances. As 1 say. in the sawmill business the men looked at it in that light, and the usual practice was to work with the clock not less than half an hour ahead, and in some cases they worked with it an hour ahead, and occasionally even up to two hours ahead, of the correct time. Perhaps there was a sane reason for that —that is to say, many of the sawmills were situated at considerable distances from the townships, and by reason of the fact of giving themselves the additional daylight it permitted them gettinginto town considerably earlier, thus enabling them to have a better opportunity to transact their business and attend to other matter's if they so desired. During the whole of my experience I never knew of a, man who complained as to the principle adopted ; it seemed to run very well, and it certainly suited the men who were working in the sawmill industry. As a matter of fact, 1 have seen certain mills where the work- was commenced at between 3 o'clock and 4 o'clock in tin; morning in order to complete the day's work lit midday, and that would leave the balance of the daylight for the benefit of the men so that they could go into town to transact their business or follow up any pleasure they desired. Thin practice was always arranged mutually among the men, and no trouble was ever experienced. The Hon. Mr. Ngata.] If the clocks were put forward it would make no difference ?— That is so. I may say that some of the mills I have in mind were not. far away from (own, but others, of course, were fifteen or sixteen miles away. The Chairman.] Of course, it has to be taken into consideration the question of bush mills as against the timber-yards in towns ?— lt did not operate lo any extent in the yards in (own. It operated so far at , the men in the bush were concerned that is, those nun who were Idling the logs ?—lt must have operated in the town yards of tlio Tiratu Sawmilling Company to a certain extent because they wore getting timber in from the mills, and they were working some time ahead of the clock —that is, half an hour or so. Mr. Field.] You are speaking for the town workers and the men you have mentioned —namely, the men engaged in the timber industry —the men who are mainly concerned are (hose who belong to the Trades and Labour Council ?—We have a large membership scattered throughout the country. Are there any farm workers who are members of your organization ?—lS T o. Do you see any objection to the people in the various branches of trade- namely, those engaged in the timber industry—putting on the clock and leaving the. rest of the people to do whatever they please ? —lt would be practically impossible in the towns unless it was universal, because the time would not be adjusted to the various circumstances, and it would mean that the very facts I have mentioned as being rather a ridiculous argument would be a sound argument under circumstances such as this, because the labourer would have his time on half an hour, but the trains would not be running to take him to work. So that so far as the town areas are concerned you must have it either universal or otherwise ? — That is so, because everything has to be adjusted accordingly. I take it that you know nothing of the farm conditions ? —Only in a general way. I may say that I have performed work about farms occasionally. You will also understand that the fruitgrowers would not be able to pick the fruit ofi the trees until the dew had disappeared ? —1 understand that, although Ido not think it would affect them very much. If the clock was advanced an hour they would be able to start at 9 o'clock by it instead of 8 o'clock, and they could work an hour later. As long as the dew is on the fruit no one would be able to work at all ?—I take it that you mean with regard to the wage workers. Yes ? —That, of course, is only a minor matter in my opinion. As a matter of fact, it is not a very big industry in this country, and therefore I do not think what might be termed a minor industry should be allowed to stop the whole thing coming into operation, as it were. No doubt you will admit that the dairy industry is a very large industry ?—-Yes, one has to admit that the dairy industry is a very big industry. And those engaged in the industry have to commence work very early in the morning ? —But I cannot see how the coming into effect of this measure will affect them, because very few of them are affected by the train services. I understand that the bulk of their cartage is done by motor-wagons to-day, if that is so, the motor-wagon does not make any difference, because it does not have to run to a time-table. But the farmers would have to commence work an hour earlier in the morning ? —Presumably so, but I do not think it should affect them very much, and, moreover, I do not think it would be necessary for them to start an hour earlier in the morning if it were not convenient for them to do so. Supposing the clock were put on an hour earlier and they were to start work earlier, they would have to make their operations fit in with their arrangements, would they not ?—I. think it would be only a minor number in the community that would be prejudicially affected perhaps. They could in some degree adjust themselves, in my opinion, similarly to what the sawmill workers did at the time I was working there, and apparently they carry out that practice down to the present time. You are aware, are you not, that a great many of the dairy-farmers send their milk in by train ? —Yes, and it would be perhaps in those circumstances where difficulty might arise. Under such circumstances as that one could readily see that they would have to adjust their circumstances to the conditions operating at the moment; but 1. do not think that that is a general application. 1 believe that they are more generally relying on motor transport, and therefore that could be adjusted to meet their conditions. Mr. Sidey.] What are the unions with your Council ?—They are all affiliated in the towns. We have practically the whole of the skilled trades. In fact, 1 should say that we have perhaps two thousand members affiliated.