B. BOND.]

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went to the Shaw, Savill, and Albion Company, the shipowners. He asked them this question : " Have you got a full cargo ? " They replied, " No, plenty of room." " Oh," he said, " I was told there was not." They said, " There is any amount of room for your lot, and a lot more besides." He said he would see about it, and went back to the National Dairy Association's secretary again and told him what Shaw, Savill, had said —that they had got plenty of room in the ship. The secretary replied, " What business have you to ship your stuff by that company ? We are the shippers." He was reluctantly compelled to admit their claim, and said in the end, " I want you to ship it." This is a matter we should make it our business to see about. This buyer got the butter on board, and it went Home, and instead of having a loss of 2d. he gained Id. on it. Four years ago there was a great cry for the farmers to band together and buy ships and run their own fleet. I will in this connection just read a little extract from a paper to show what has happened to tho Commonwealth line. It says this : "It will be no pleasant task for Mr. Bruce to explain the shipping line balance-sheet (says the Herald). It is made up to June 30 of last year, and instead of there having been a profit for the financial year under review, a loss exceeding £1,000,000 will have to be announced." Thank goodness we farmers did not go in for such an undertaking as that. I object to Government interference of any kind with anything I have to sell, and for this reason : It will be remembered that years ago, in Mr. Seddon's time, after the freezing-works came into operation, there was a great cry about the killing of the ewe lambs. It was said there would be no ewes left, and the late Mr. Seddon proposed to put a law on the statute-book to stop the killing of ewe lambs, but the idea broke down because there was such an outcry against it. Ido not want the State to control anything I have to do with in the producing line or the selling thereof. Mr. Corrigan said at Palmerston, " Approve of the skeleton of the Bill and we shall fill it up in the future." But I would sooner see him take the skeleton and pitch it into the harbour and sink it, as I have no faith in anything of that kind. I know all about putting laws on the statute-book. How long did it take to get the sheep-tax off the statute-book ? It filled its purpose, and lasted for years, and the farmers asked in vain for its removal. They got it removed at last. I wish to put in the balance-sheet of the Ballance Co-operative Dairy Company for the year ended 30th June, 1905. This will prove that I am speaking the truth, and it is the first factory I supplied in 1904. I submit that we farmers are not being as badly hit as we might be. In the National Dairy Association's agenda last year there was a remit standing in the name of the Koromiko Dairy Company to this effect: " That cash discounts be eliminated." There was a custom in Tooley Street to deduct 1 per cent, on all cash received by them within seven days. The secretary of the Koromiko Company wrote to the National Dairy Association to the above effect. There was a meeting at Palmerston North about twelve months ago when the question was discussed, but it was rejected. I think only thirty farmers out of three hundred voted for it. They could have saved 1 per cent, on the total value of the butterfat exported, if they could have got Tooley Street to agree to it, at the one stroke. Our factory has this year an output of 225 tons, and under the proposals of this Bill we have to pay on butter |d. per pound, and on cheese On the 225 tons it would amount to lis. Bd. a ton, or £135 ss. Bd. over and above what they are going to pay Tooley Street, because the farmers cannot do without Tooley Street. They are honourable men —they are Englishmen, the same as myself—and I always defend an Englishman if I find him a good one. I will now deal with the on cheese. This is a butter Bill entirely, and we cheese-men have no right to be represented in connection with it. We have no business to be working for it. But I say that if we add T -Jjjd. per pound on to cheese we would be making a grand contribution to the butter-man's industry, and as a fellow-farmer I would be quite willing to do that—to give them a voluntary contribution of on all cheese exported from this Dominion, instead of being taxed, as proposed, for more than a |d. on butterfat. Here is the average weight per pound of butterfat in cheese made from the following factories : Manawatu Co-operative Dairy Company, 2-63 lb. cheese to 1 lb. butterfat; Bainesse, 1922, 2-66 lb. cheese to 1 lb. butterfat; Bainesse, 1.923, 2-68 lb. cheese to 1 lb. butterfat; Mangawhata, 2-56 lb. cheese to 1 lb. butterfat; Kuku, 2-64 lb. cheese to 1 lb. butterfat; Kairanga, 2-63 lb. cheese to 1 lb. butterfat. In conclusion, I maintain that by making the proposed contribution of |d. they have asked us to pay an unreasonable tax for something we have no reason to be taxed on.

Wednesday, 25th July, 1923. Herbert Bond's examination resumed. (No. 9a.) 1. The Chairman.] Had you finished giving your evidence when we adjourned on Friday ?—No. 2. Then we will hear you further ? —Gentlemen, I would call your attention to clause 11 of the Bill, which provides, " For the purpose of enabling the Board effectively to control the export, sale, and distribution of New Zealand dairy-produce the Governor-General may, acting under the powers conferred on him by the Customs Act, 1913, and its amendments, prohibit the export from New Zealand of any dairy-produce save in accordance with a license to be issued by the Board, or to be issued by the Minister of Agriculture subject to such conditions and restrictions as may be approved by the Board." Then, in paragraph (2) of subclause (1) of clause 13 of the Bill it says : " Every contract for the carriage of dairy-produce by sea made otherwise than in conformity with this section shall be void." And paragraph (2) continues : " Every person other than the Board who, after the constitution of the Board, or after such later date as aforesaid, exports any dairy-produce from New Zealand shall, on making entry therefor under the Customs Acts and before such entry has been passed, produce to the Collector or other officer of Customs sufficient evidence to satisfy him that the contract for the shipment of that dairy-produce has been approved by the Board." It seems quite clear to my mind that this takes out of our hands the whole of the handling of our products. We