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89. And that if the child is net chosen the first year his name drops out, and he must pass the examination again? —There is another thing we forget. We are told that a great number of these pupils who go to the district high school do so with the object of sitting for the Junior Civil Service or Matriculation Examination. I believe that is quite true. Why do they? 1 think the reason is that they have never had a proper rural course in the past. It is only of "late years this course has been provided. I think when pupils and parents begin to realize the importance of this agricultural course we will get a great number of young people who have not gone to district high schools at all. There is a vast number of people we have not reached in the past. 90. The In other words, in the past the Civil Service Examination was the onlyobjective ?—Yes. 91. Mr. Poland.] You must educate the parents to your views, or they will go for these certificates largely in order to provide their children with positions ?—I think it far better to give this course to the larger number of children we are attracting to district high schools than to prepare a few children for examinations. 92. That is so, if your premises are right; but is it a fact that you are attracting children to the high schools now for the sake of the rural course or for the sake of the examination? —For both; but we are attracting a number by means of our rural course which otherwise we would not have got at all. I cannot speak of what has been done here, because we have not adopted this rural course to any extent. It has been in operation in only two schools here; we have not had the equipment before. 93. Mr. Thomson.] I would like to ask in what respect you think school instruction can be improved and made of more practical value in equipping pupils for their future careers : whether you think the existing system is perfect or imperfect—if perfect say so, if imperfect, indicate the main imperfections which have appealed to you in the course of your experience, and suggest what remedies? —I think the answer to that question lies in the introduction of a greater amount of practical manual work into our schools. 94. Do you mean by that the system of manual and technical instruction now in force ?— Yes; I mean many of our schools here give instruction in woodwork and cookery, but I think that should be extended. I think instruction of that kind should reach the children in the country. 95. Do you believe in nature-study? —Yes, thoroughly. 96. As an expert in education, you can honestly recommend that to all the parents throughout New Zealand ?—Undoubtedly. 97. Consequently, you believe that if a child has gone through a course of nature-studies the next course should be a course in agriculture to all children, irrespective of the calling they are going to follow in after life? —Yes. I must explain that, because I cannot answer that question in a single word. I think that training in agriculture, which is a training in elementary scientific method, should be given to boys and girls. That is quite apart from its utility value. 98. You are aware there is a great deal of apathy existing in the country, particularly amongst the farmers, who think that this education should not be imparted, but you would strongly recommend that as a means not only of teaching agriculture, but as a means of teaching science? —Not to teach science, but to try and induce in the individual a scientific aspect of mind. 99. At any rate, that is the only way, in your opinion, by which we can induce a large number to take an interest in what is the primary industry of this country?— Yes. 100. It is a matter of observation that the trend of population, particularly among the young, is from the country to the town, and New Zealand being rather a farm than a manufactory, you would recommend, I take it, that our system of education should be so arranged, if possible, to attract into the country by increasing the inducements to go into the country? —Yes; giving the children a bent for rural life. 107. Do you not think, then, that if we want to encourage children to follow rural or agricultural subjects that it would be better to place them higher on the examination-list for the examination Mr. Poland mentioned, and give more marks for them? —Yes, in general I do think that; but I would do it in a different way. There are certain practical subjects the children take up at the district high school for which they get no direct credit in the examinations. I would attach a certain number of marks to these subjects, and do it that way. 108. You would strongly recommend that?— Yes. 109. I suppose you are aware that 54 per cent, of the boys and 53 per cent, of the girls leave school without passing the Sixth Standard?—l have never quite got at the position. 110. That was the position in 1910. Would you infer from that that the children are kept too long in the lower classes?—l think generally the children are kept too long in the lower classes. Whether that can be helped or not just at present it is difficult to say. You see, in a district like this, where there is a great number of small schools, and little children have to travel long distances to school, it sometimes happens that these children are a longer time in getting through their classes than they would under more comfortable conditions. I think the reply to your question is this : there are great inducements given to young people to begin work. They can earn good wages. Another thing is that the standard of comfort in New Zealand is relatively high, and it becomes indeed a necessity at times for parents to insist on their children going out into the world and earning at an early stage. I think the parent is quite as much to blame as the child. 111. It would be very desirable, would it not, if we could increase the percentage of the boys and girls who pass Standard VI? —Most desirable. 112. Do you think that one fixed minimum of salary is practicable in the absence of any scheme of centralization —I am referring now to the small backblock schools particularly?—l would pay to the backblock-school teacher a higher salary than he now receives. 113. I suppose you have read the remarks of Mr. T. S. Foster, Chief Inspector of Schools in North Canterbury?— Yes, I saw them.