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college. Then, for the very much larger class who are earning their living, we should provide school courses intensely practical, very often associated with experimental farms—probably a large number of the courses not so much academic as of the kind that would be taken by experts of the Agricultural Department; and we should not leave any of these people for the rest of their lives without giving them the means of keeping their knowledge up to date. For that specific purpose there should be short winter courses for adult farmers. This scheme implies experimental stations (which would naturally be under the control of the Agricultural Department) to bring the knowledge up to date, or for special research. I think there should be a general council of agricultural education, because there are so many different bodies concerned in the work that there should be some means of bringing them together. The council should consist of representatives of the Agricultural Department, the Education Department; of agricultural colleges, dairy schools, and veterinary colleges; of the controlling authorities of agricultural classes and farmers' societies. I should like to say that the existing regulations in New Zealand allow for nearly every one of the courses that I have suggested in my report, and most of the courses can be obtained free of cost to the pupils. I should like them to be all free, and I would add that some of the instruction should be compulsory. 45. Will you indicate what? —You would have to give the choice to the individual. 46. But when the individual had chosen, you mean it should be compulsory upon him to proceed? —Yes. Now as to the rural courses taken up. You will find fairly full details of that in E.-5, 1911. Agricultural courses have been taken up by a large number of district high schools and by a few of the secondary schools. In 1910 complete rural courses were taken up in sixteen district high schools, situated in five educational districts, and the number of pupils taking it up 447. I think it is quite safe to say that more than double that number are taking it up now. I will supply the exact figures later. That refers only to complete rural courses. The number taking up the elementary agricultural course in primary schools was alone very much larger. It was 15,159 in 1910. Speaking of the rural course in district high schools, the rural course was suggested to several Boards controlling district high schools in a general waysome years ago, but in a more specific way in a circular issued by the Department two or three years ago, and a regulation was passed by the Governor in Council giving £5 10s. per annum additional payment on account of each pupil that took the complete rural course. Grants have also been given for the necessary buildings—laboratories and workshops. I will supply a return giving the figures in connection with this expenditure and the number of pupils attending the courses. This is the course that was suggested enabling the district high schools to earn this £5 10s. grant: English, four hours a week; arithmetic and book-keeping, four hours a week; geography, one hour a week; civics and economics, one hour a week; drawing to scale and elementary building-construction for boys and hygiene or physiology for girls, two hours a week; woodwork —boys, cookery—girls, two hours a week; elementary physiology and anatomy of farm animals —boys, household economy or housewifery —girls, one hour a week; elementary physics and farm economics, two hours a week; agricultural science and rural economy, three hours a week; dairying, one hour a week; physical instruction, one hour a week: total, twenty-four hours a week. We recommended a similar course with a little modification for country high schools. The £5 10s. is payable only to district high schools; the secondary schools have already a secured finance. Certainly some of these subjects get the ordinary capitation for manual instruction besides, which in the case of schools is considered enough to pay for the material. There is a certain number of the secondary schools that are taking this work. I should rather not say too much on the degree of efficiency already reached in some of them, because they are only just beginning the work, and it would not be fair to criticize them. Moreover, in several cases the staffs are not sufficiently qualified for the work; while anxious to do it, they are only feeling their way. But I can name without any odious comparison one or two schools where the work is being very well done. I will mention one of them—Palmerston North High School. Ido not say there are not several others doing it as well or nearly as well; but I have inspected that one personally. Among the options allowed to pupils at Palmerston North is a fairly complete vocational course dealing with agriculture and dairying, and the pupils who go through this course have proved themselves on being tested not only to have a sound knowledge of the foundation of agriculture, but to have a thoroughly good general education, as regards, at all events, the two main characteristics —knowledge of and taste for English literature and knowledge gained practically of scientific method. They are, in my opinion, the only two essentials of education.

Auckland, Tuesday, 4th Junk. 1912. George Hogben further examined. 47. The Chairman.] We shall now be glad to hear your views with respect to clause 10 of the order of reference —Scholarships and free places : what changes, if any, should be made in this connection? —A summary of the facts with regard to scholarships will be found on pages 44 to 47 of Parliamentary Paper E.-l, 1911. Free places are tenable at secondary schools, district high schools, or technical schools, or, in the case of those of predominantly Maori birth, at Maori secondary schools. The total number in 1910, the last year for which we have complete returns, was 7,540. A junior free place is obtained in one of three ways — (a) by the gaining of a Junior National Scholarship or an Education Board Scholarship, or a scholarship given by the Governors of a secondary school; (b) by qualifying for a scholarship, though not obtaining one, or by passing the Department's examination for junior free places; (c) by gaining a certificate of proficiency

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