1.-7.

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|J. PAYNE

95. You mean that he was mentally incompetent, but physically able to walk about without having the appearance of being drunk 2—He had had a considerable quantity of liquor, I judged. 96. You are quite clear on that point? —I am quite clear that Mr. McMaster was certainly under the influence of liquor. What the stage was lam not prepared to say. 97. Mr. Nosworthy.] You say that Mr. McMaster was under the influence of liquor when he went into the room with you and Mr. Massey?—Yes. 98. Decidedly under the influence? —I will not allow you to put words,into my mouth. I say lie was under the influence of liquor. 99. Mr. Russell.] Do I understand that after Mr. McMaster had made this statement to you— that he could get from £500 to .£l,OOO if you would vote with the Ward Administration—he then proposed that you should accompany him to see Mr. Massey? —Yes. 100. Did it occur to you that that was an utterly inconsistent position?— Well, for reasons already stated J did not regard Mi-. McMaster seriously at all. You could not under the circum.stances. 101. But could you conceive that a man would seriously propose to bribe you to vote for the Government in power, and then take you over to see the leader of the other party?— Well, from my political experience 1 am not very much surprised at anything. 102. You have not had so long an experience as some of us in politics. I think a good many of us would never have supposed that. Did you, when Mr. McMaster made this statement to you, seriously think and feel that lie was prepared to give you .£5OO or £1,000 if you would give him a pledge that you would vote with the Ward Government ?—I could not say. 1 did not treat the matter seriously at all. 103. Mr. Allen.] If you did not treat the matter seriously, why did you mention it to your committee? —The two gentlemen that were there formed the executive of my Scheme 45 League. 104. What lias that got to do with the bribe? —It has this to do with it: we were speaking on confidential terms of various matters, and in the course of that conversation I mentioned that Mr. McMaster had said this about the bribe. 105. Why did you mention it in the House if you did not treat it seriously?—l was forced to mention it as a matter of evi.dence of what I said before Mr. Massey. 106. Why did vim mention it to Mr. Massey if you did not treat it seriously?— You are leading up now to what Mr. Skerrett sought to ask. 1 want to tell the full story if you want to know that. Mr. Young: Mr. Payne and Mr. Massey evidently want to clear this up by giving some explanation about a matter which may prejudice Mr. McMaster when Mr. McMaster has got nothing to do with it. Mr. McMaster is the only man on trial here, and I submit that other matters ought not to be introduced to clear up what somebody else wants clearing up. Mr. Payne: 1 must object to the term " clear up." 107. Mr. Allen.] I have asked the question, why, if you did not treat the matter seriously, did you mention it to Mr. Massey? —I must insist on relating the whole occurrence. Mr. Young: Mr. Allen is referring to the occasion in this building when a conversation took place between Mr. Massey and Mr. Payne. That has nothing whatever to do with Mr. McMaster. Mr. Payne very promptly says that he will tell you all about it. But it is telling you all about it (hat I object to, because it does not concern Mi , . McMaster. Mi , . Payne is probably going on to say something which reflects on Mr. McMaster. The Chairman : You object to the question on the ground that it may reflect on your client? Mr. Young: On the ground that the answer may be something which reflects on my client, who was not present. At this stage the Committee adjourned till 2.30 p.m. On resuming,— The Chairman : Mr. Allen, you were desirous of putting a question to Mr. Payne. Mr. Allen: 1 do not want to put it. The Chairman: Although, in my opinion, such a question would not be allowed in a Court of law, at the same time members know that I cannot control them in putting any questions they may desire, whether they be permissible in a Court of law or not. Mr. Allen-: I do not wish to press it, sir. 108. Mr. G. M. Thomson. 1 wish to ask Mr. Payne this question : You said Mr. McMaster was -in a half-intoxicated position when he made the statement. Perhaps you will give us the exact words he used? —I said lie was in a half-drunken, maudlin condition. 109. Was that before you had a drink with him or after? —After. The Chairman: Mr. Young, do you wish to put your client in the box or to make any statement ? Mr. Young: Mr. McMaster lias not anything to hide, but he does not wish to give evidence. Of course, if he is called he is ready to give evidence. ** You have heard the statement that he made the remark as a joke—the reference was made by way of a joke. That is all we have to say about it, unless the Committee wishes to ask Mr. McMaster any questions. The view put upon the remark by Mr. Payne we entirely admit. Mr. Allen: Might 1 call your attention, sir, to the wording of our order of reference—"that the statement made this day by Mr, John Payne, member for Grey Lynn, to the effect that one McMaster, of Auckland, had been authorized to give the member for Grey Lynn," &o. I do not know that the Committee want to know anything about the authorizing. Mr. Eussell: We have to inquire into the truth of the matter. The Chairman: We will call Mr. McMaster. Chauljßs MoMastbr sworn and examined 1. Mr. Young.] What is your name? —Charles McMaster. 2. And you were chairman of Mr. Payne's committee? —No, secretary. 3. I understand you are a wine-merchant? —That is so. i. And you wereopposed to Mr. Fowlds? —Yes.