W. H. LUCAS.]

197

C—4.

4. What is your opinion of the candle test for ascertaining the presence of noxious gases ?—Well from experience I know the candle test to be an infallible one for indicating the presence of gas in sufficient quantity to do any real harm to a man. Before it would cause death the candle would go out. Most old miners would feel the effect of it in their system, before the candle would show any indication of its presence. T know I can myself; but there was a time when I was not able to feel the effect of the gas before the candle went out. The effect on the system is not infallible. 5. Is the candle infallible ? —Yes. 6. Do you know anything of this lamp which detects the gas when only If per cent, is present ? —No, I have never heard of it. 7. Have you any information as to the ventilation, natural or artificial, and what is your opinion of the different systems of ventilation by artificial means ? —I hold the same opinion as the previous witnesses whose evidence you have heard —that is, that natural ventilation is preferable to artificial. There are occasions, however, when it is necessary to use artificial means, and in some cases the ventilation by exhaust is better and sometimes the blower is the better. 8. What is the determining factor ? —I could hardly say ;it would depend on the circumstances of the case. In a case like the Hauraki pump there is no doubt that a blower is required to put the air into the face, but it certainly does not remove the bad air and fumes from the men who are working in the level, and in that sense it is not effective. There should be some means of putting more air in with the blower to cause some exhaust that would draw the bad air out. 9. Are you in a position to say, Mr. Lucas, whether a powerful exhaust in place of the blower would give as good ventilation as the blower ? —I think, sir, the suggestion of Mr. Whitley is the most practicable one that I have heard —namely, that the section shaft should be connected as quickly as possible. With the blower from one shaft and the exhaust from the other there would be no difficulty at all. It was originally intended that this connection should be made. 10. Have you any opinion on the sanitary question ? —Yes ; I think, sir, better sanitary arrangements are necessary in all the mines, and their use should be made compulsory in all cases. 11. What is your opinion on the subject, of baths ? —I think that baths ought to be provided. Some of the mines are very dirty to work in, and when the men come to the surface they are in such condition that they require a warm bath. 12. Have you had any experience of accidents and their causes ? —Well, as secretary of the union, I have had an opportunity of learning the causes of many accidents from reports, but for some years we have had no serious accidents on this field excepting blasting, accidents. 13. What opinion do you hold as to how many shots should be fired with a fuse ?—I agree with previous speakers that where more than four or five holes have to be fired electricity should be used. I think four or five holes are quite enough to fire at once by the old method. 14. As secretary of the union, have you any knowledge regarding the prevalence of miners' disease ?—Yes, we have had a good deal of it at the Thames. There are a good many old members of the union incapacitated through it to-day who will never work again; a'so some comparatively young men. 15. Have you a system of lodge doctors under the union ? —No ; but we have a doctor for special examinations. The hospital doctor has had the most experience here with regard to miners' complaint. 16. Mr. Doivgray.] You accompanied the Commission, Mr. Lucas, on its visit to the Deep Levels on Saturday last % —Yes. 17. Do you consider the test of the air that was made on that occasion an efficient one ? —Of course, lam not experienced in regard to air-tests. As I said before, I have only a smattering of that sort of thing ; but I consider, in a general way, they were fair tests, with one or two exceptions. I think the test which was made in the May Queen Mine was scarcely a fair one from a practical point of view. 18. The Chairman.] Did you ask any member of the Commission to make a test at any point where you considered it desirable ? —No; the test should have been taken in the stopes instead of in the lower level. 19. Mr. Dow(jray.~\ You have heard a complaint made with regard to the water used in the spray : is there any difficulty, do you think, in getting fresh water for that purpose from the surface ?—No, because the county main is running close alongside the shaft, and that water could be used for the sprays. It is used at present in the boilers. 20. Have you heard any complaints as to the efisct the water at present used for the sprays has upon men ? —Yes, but only recently. The water has the effect of poisoning the men's hands if they have cuts or bruises. 21. What do you attribute that to ? —The water comes from the old level and is mineralized. 22. Do you think, that it should be brought from the surface ?—Yes, it should be fresh water wherever it is likely to come into contact with the men's hands or faces. 23. Mr. Parry.'] You have heard the evidence given by previous witnesses, Mr. Lucas : is there anything different you would like to place before the Commission as to fixing a standard temperature for a six-hour place ? —I certainly think it is reasonable for a standard temperature to be fixed for a six-hour place. It would be simpler than having to get the Mining Inspector to arrange the matter. 24. What is your opinion, as a practical man, as to whether the man who is compelled to work in such places is not in a better position to decide what is a six-hour place than the man who would consider the matter from a purely scientific point of view ?—The man who is working in a place should know ; but, still, I think the scientific point of view should be taken into consideration. 25. Do you think the miner is better able to tell the effect which the hot place has upon him than the man who judges by the constituents of the air ? —Yes, the workman is the best judge of the effect it has upon him.