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I.—3a.

J. JONES. j

84. I want you to tell the Committee if you have any information with regard to the Natives approaching the Government with the idea, of selling their interests to the Government, or of the Government approaching them —the Native owners/ —Yes. I understood that the Government had bought the property. 85. Where did you get that information ( —lt was common rumour, but how it became confirmed to me was that the Native Minister, Mr. Carroll, told me. 86. Mr. Carroll informed you at that time that the Government contemplated purchasing?— Not at that time; it was subsequently. 1 went to him and said, " Under some of these agreements there will be something coming to me. 1 am pressed lor money. You might as well let me have a bit. , ' He said, " Well, I know yours is a hard case.' lie appeared well-intentioned. He said, " I do not know what fund to take it from, Jones, but I have let Pepene Eketone have an advance on the purchase, and I do not see why you should not have it. I will see Mr. Salmond and see what fund I can take the money from to get it for you." I said " Thank you." I saw him about a week afterwards, and he said, " Mr. Salmond advises that we cannot do anything." 87. Who was Pepene Eketone? —One of the owners of the block. 88. Mr. Carroll informed you that he had made an advance to Pepene as an indication of their intention to purchase? —An advance upon the purchase, I understood. 89. Part of the purchase-money? —Absolutely. 90. Do you know of your own knowledge that the Natives were willing to sell?— Absolutely. 91. And Mr. Carroll gave you to understand that the Government were willing to purchase? —Not only willing, but anxious to purchase. I think he will say the same now. I think they were anxious to do so, because Mr. Carroll said, " This is a settlement of the difficulty if we buy this land." 92. Do you know why the purchase by the Crown from the Natives was not proceeded with? —I do not. 93. Was a price mentioned? —Yes. 94. What was it?—lt is in some of the correspondence — £15,000, which would be about ss. 9d. an acre. 95. That is to say, the Government were arranging to purchase the Native interest for £15,000? —So I understood from Mr. Carroll. 96. What year was that? —It was about a couple of years ago. I am not too sure about the date, but I am perfectly certain of the interview with Mr. Carroll, because he seemed sympathetic. 97. There was nothing, to your knowledge, to prevent the Government purchasing the block from the Natives?— Nothing whatever. They could have purchased, because it was laid down in the correspondence that Herrman Lewis could have claimed under the Native Land Act. There are clauses in that Act which would allow him to claim compensation for his leasehold. 98. You are referring to section 375 of the Native Land Act, 1909? —Yes. 99. Did Mr. Carroll give you to understand that he intended to purchase the leasehold interest under section 375? —No. Mr. Carroll was not going to purchase under section 375. He was going to purchase the freehold, but Mr. Herrman Lewis was taken care of and provided for under the public works clauses of the Native Land Act. Mr. Carroll agreed that he was provided for there. 100. You approached the Upper House by petition on one occasion asking for an inquiry, did you not?— Yes, on the recommendation of Sir Joseph Ward. 101. You went to the Legislative Council? —I went to both Houses. There was an understanding —they were rushing away for the election 102. What year was that? —1908, I think. They were rushing away for the election, and the lower House was too busy, and some one—l am not sure it was not Mr. Jennings —said, " The other House will inquire into it for you; we are very busy." I went to the Upper House and they brought up a report recommending the Government to set up a competent tribunal to make an independent inquiry, and in the meantime to prevent further dealings with the land in question. But I never could get that inquiry; I have not got it yet. 103. Have you got the report of the Committee of the Upper House?— Yes. 104. Is this it: "The Public Petitions Committee, to which was referred Petition "No. 50, of Joshua Jones, has the honour to report'thereon as follows : The Committee has given the subjectmatter of the petition much consideration, and has taken a considerable amount of evidence thereon. The Committee recommends that the Government should refer the case to a Royal Commission, or other competent tribunal, for inquiry into its merits, and that, pending the investigation by that body, steps should be taken at once to prevent further dealing with the lands in question." It was ordered that the report lie upon the table. Apparently it came up a day or two afterwards, because there is this entry in the Journals of the Legislative Council : " Petition No. 50, of Joshua Jones. —On motion of the Hon. Mr. Thompson, resolved, that the report of the Public Petitions Committee upon the petition of Joshua Jones, of Mokau, No. 50 of 1908, be agreed to, and referred to the Government for consideration." That was on 9th October, 1908. I will put the Journal in. Witness: On the 7th October, when the recommendation was brought up and laid on the table of the Council, I said to my solicitor, " You go at once and get Dr. Findlay to set up this inquiry." He went; he was away a good while. He came back and said, " I have seen Dr. Findlay." I asked, "What did he say? " He said, "The Government will not set up an inquiry; you shall not have it." I looked at him and asked, "Why is that? You know the Premier advised me to petition Parliament, promising that he would act on any recommendation made." He said, " I do not know, but he has given me terms on behalf of Herrman Lewis, and if you do not agree to these, from what I can judge from him you will get nothing." I said, " What on earth has Dr. Findlay got to do with Herrman Lewis? " Hβ said, "He tells me that his firm are Mr. Lewis's loliciton in this transaction."