L—9a.

62

H. CABTER.

339. Do you think you could conveniently take more than that?—l do not think so, to allow the conductor to do his work properly, and for people to have ingress and egress. 340. Do you think it would be right to put in the Order in Council the number of straphangers allowed to be carried instead of leaving it to others to decide?— Yes. 341 Would that allow the motorman to see the number he has to brake for ?—Yes. 342. Supposing you were going down steep grades like College Hill and Parnell Kise: if you knew the number you were carrying—say you were overloaded by twenty —you would be in a better position to kuovv what brake to apply?— Yes. A man with a heavy overload would not be able to run to his time-table. 343. lam looking at it from the point of view of your preventing an accident. If you saw a woman and child in front of you on the track coming down College Hill, if you .knew what your load was you would know how to act?— Yes. 344. You would travel further with a heavy load than with a lighter load ?—Yes. 345. So it would be an advantage to the motormen to know the excess load they could carry? Yes.

Tuesday, 13th September, 1910. Henbt Carter further examined. (No. 5.) 1 Hon. Mr R McEenzie ] In Auckland, cars licensed to carry fifty-six passengers are allowed to carry fourteen strap-hangers?— Yes; I consider it is too many 2 You know car No. 75? —Yes. 3 That is a double-decker?—No, the experimental car with an air brake attached. 4. Is it a double-decker? —No, an ordinary bogie car with a double platform. 5 Are there many of the same type in Auckland? —Of that particular type I think there would be about fifteen No. 75 is a very heavy car The others are somewhat lighter There have been some imported and some locally made. 6. Do you consider No. 75 is sufficiently braked now?— Yes, generally speaking. 7 Are you sufficient of an expert to say whether it is or not?—l should say Yes. 8. Would you be surprised if Mr Walklate agrees to reduce the weight of that car to bring it down sufficiently for the brake on the car? —Yes, I should be surprised to hear that. 9. If Mr. Walklate agrees to do that, you would not consider it was sufficiently braked at present?—l have personally used that car, and was taken off my own run to drive it. We have not many men there who understand the air brake, and I understood the brake was sufficient for , ordinary traffic purposes. 10. And if I bring evidence from Mr. Walklate himself to show that it is not sufficiently braked, you would be surprised ?—Yes. There are only two of the air-braked cars—that is, the bogie car No. 75 and the truck car No. 48. 11 Do you think the Government certificate would reduce the standard of efficiency among the men if they had to undergo the examination proposed in this Bill? —I think it would raise it. 12. What effect do you think the Government certificate would have in the case of a strike? —I do not know, but it would prevent an inrush of incompetent men to take the cars out, because the men driving the cars would have to have a Government certificate. 13. Do you think the force of public opinion would prevent the Auckland Corporation or Tramway Company from employing incompetent or uncertificated men during a strike? —I do not think the Corporation take much notice of any one, although they require notice from the compain* when the licenses are issued. 14." Supposing the motormen of Wellington went on strike, do you think the public would trust themselves on the cars with incompetent motormen I —l suppose many people would not ride, just as, after the Kingsland accident, people would not ride on the double-deckers. 15 Supposing certificates were issued in Wellington, would they not be in a similar position, if they employed uncertificated men, as they would be in the case of uncertificated engineers or officers on a steamer?—l do not see any difference. 16. Do you consider, if the Government certificates were granted to motormen, it would improve their status and qualifications? —Yes, that is our claim for it. 17 Coming to the car report-book, you gave several good reasons why it should be adopted : would you prefer a general car report-book or a book for each car?—A book for each car would be better 18 Do you know the system, adopted in Auckland now?— Yes. 19. Would that meet your views if the loose leaves were bound after the reports were made? No; I should like the volume to be always accessible to the motormen At the present time we do not have access to the bound volumes. 20. Would you want the report-book for each car, or a general report-book?— Either would do. At would made it more concise if we had one book for each car. 21 Will you look at subclause (3) of clause 9? In the centre of the subclause you will see the words " to enter in the said book any report he thinks fit " ?—Yes. 22 What do you understand by the words "any report he thinks fit"? —It says after that " as to any defect "in the mechanism or equipment of the car " 23 What do you understand by the words " any report he thinks fit"?—He has to report any defect he sees. That is what I understand by it.