H. W WILSON.]

31

I.—9a.

243 What is the average width?—The average in Dunedin, barring Princes Street South, is a chain; our average is a chain and a half in the streets in which the cars run You take Symonds Street, Queen Street, Hobson Street, Ponsonby Road, and Customs Street—they are all wide streets. Our narrowest street is the Kyber Road. 244. Take Symonds Street: is it a fact that many people walk across the street?— Yes; it is a busy contre at the top end of the street, and then it is like another busy town there. 245. Do you know of cars being stopped frequently on the hill in Symonds Street for four, five, or six minutes—stuck up for want of power I —No, not of late. It has happened, of course, in the past. 246. Would you contradict me if I said I had been on the car there on several occasions" not very long ago and was stuck up for five or six minutes at a time?—l would not contradict you. I do not know the personal circumstances. 247 Do you know that it has frequently happened that cars have been stuck up there ?—I do not know There was a time when the power was deficient, but, owing to the action of the City Council, the company has increased it. That is one of the instances where we have exercised our power 248. Do you know of cars running away in Auckland?— No. I only know of one instance of that kind. That is about seven or eight years ago, when the service was quite new 249. You never heard of such instances occurring?—No, neither in the Press nor the Council, to my knowledge. 250. Does your Council at the present time allow its employees any right of appeal?— Yes, we always have. If a man comes to me with any complaint, I always advise him that he has that right. He appeals as a rule to the Council, and the Council refers it to a committee of inquiry That is the inherent right, I hold, in any employee. 251 Is there anything you know in law to prevent a person who is interested financially in a tramway company, such as a shareholder, being a member of your Council at the same time? If it is a company such as the Auckland Tramway Company, there is nothing to prevent him being a member of the Council, but he cannot vote on any matters in which he is interested. 252. Is it within your knowledge that members of your Council have been interested in the Tramway Company? —Yes. 253. The tramway employees have no right of appeal to your Council in any way?— Not as regards their terms of engagement. The only way in which they come before us is in connection with the license. 254. Not in regard to their treatment as employees?— No. 255. Should not those men, as public servants in a sense, have the same right of appeal as other men in the employ of the Corporation?— No. The Corporation employees have the right of appeal to their employers, and the tramway employees have the same right of appeal to their employers, but not to outsiders. 256. What is the value of an appeal of an employee to his employer? Is that an independent right of appeal? —Yes; I have not such a bad opinion of men as to say they are going to be unjust on either side." 257 If you had a contract or agreement with another party, and you forfeited your rights under that agreement by having it in any way trenched upon, do you think it would be a proper appeal to the individual with whom you contracted?— You are talking of an agreement. 258. Yes?—-Then the right of appeal is to the Court under an agreement. 259. Would that be partly of the nature of an appeal, because you had simply to appeal to the other contracting party?— That is the first that is usually taken in business—you go to the other man. 260. Would it be anything in the nature of an independent appeal?—No, because both parties are interested. 261 Would it be less so if one of the contracting parties were the servant of the other? -It would not be a less independent appeal. 262. To make sure of fair treatment towards these employees, do you not think that in any appeal they should be represented on the board or committee that would hear their case? Can there be any proper right of appeal given to employees unless they have a representative on the board or committee to which they are appealing?—Of course, that "is the law of the land. When you have an action against a man you do not put a representative on the bench. 263 Can there be any independent right of appeal recognized unless the appellant has a representative on the body which is to hear his case?-—Yes, I think so. 264. With regard to clause 2 of the Bill, I understood you to say that your Council has no objection to the granting of the certificate, but to what might'arise afterwards?— That is so. 265. Your Council does not grant certificates at the present time?—No; we issue the license. That is quite a different matter 266. Mr Poole.] Were you aware of any hostility the Tramway Company received in the City Council at the time application was made for the setting-up of the Commission?—No, I am not aware of any hostility right through. lam speaking of the actions of the Council, not of individual members. 267 Did your Council approve of the findings of the first Commission of the brakes ? We have always held that it was not for us to express an opinion for or against that matter, but that the Government had it in their own hands. 268. Your Council approved of the recommendation of the Commission respecting the construction of glass fronts to the cars?— That did not come before the Council, it was a matter for the Arbitration Court.