24

J W A. VEITCH.

I.—6a.

until the whole service was proved to be in favour of this new system being adopted, no new system should be adopted. I say that the fate of the whole of the railway-men depends on the report of this Committee. 12. Supposing we came to a decision of that kind, do you think it would be fair that each man throughout the service should have a say on this question? —Yes. 13. Mr McArley ] Are you aware that in Western Australia, and also in South Australia, for some considerable time there has been in existence a Locomotive-engine Drivers' Association and an Amalgamated Society?—l do not know all the facts about those States, and, as a matter of fact, those questions are only another attempt to put words into my mouth. Matthew Joseph Mack further examined. (No. 17 1. Mr Kennedy] Is it not a fact that the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants has been spurred to action and has increased its membership during the last two years, and that that is chiefly owing to the fact that the Engine-drivers, Firemen, and Cleaners' Association has been formed?— Yes. lam quite prepared to admit this that the Amalgamated Society lias been spurred to action during the last two years, and that action has been taken by myself I was elected to the office by an over-whelming majority, and directly 1 took office the society began to go forward. 2 Mr McLaren.] I understood you to say that your society had a distinct agreement with the Government that it would not affiliate with" outside bodies?— Yes, that is one of the terms of recognition. 3. Has that been adhered to faithfully throughout? —Right up to the present time. T will read the terms of recognition if required. 4. Have you ever been approached by outside labour bodies?— Yes. They have not actually approached us to affiliate, but from time to time we have had representatives of labour bodies coming to us and saying that we ought to affiliate and get closer to organized labour , but we have fully adhered to the terms of recognition. '5. Have you knowledge of any class of transport work? The seamanship of this country, in regard to dealings with transport work, is controlled by one union? —Yes, that is so 6. I want to know is it within your- knowledge that tire matters in dispute between the shipowners of the country and the Seamen's Union were settled in conference with the Minister of Marine as Chair-man of the Conference?—l cannot exactly say that it is within my knowledge. Samuel Kennedy further examined. (No. 18.) The Chairman Do you wish to reply on behalf of the Locomotive-engine Drivers' Association? Witness Yes. Mr Chairman and" gentlemen,—Of course, fifteen minutes is a very short time within which to reply to the large amount of new ground which has been opened up. You have heard from the Amalgamated Society's delegates the proposition they have put forward, whereby they have made arrangements so'that the engine-drivers and firemen should be taken into their society This is the first we have heard about it in an official way, and Ido not think it would be fair to ask me to reply to it now, especially in the limited time allowed. There is one matter I should like to mention in regard to a question asked by Mr McLaren with reference to the seamen having but one union. I. was rather surprised to hear that, because I think that of all callings in the world seamanship has the most trades-unions. If you take the shipping in New Zealand and look through how many trades-unions the New Zealand Shipping Company have to deal with, you will find they have to deal with more than the Minister of You have not only the sailors, but you have the cooks and engineers, &c. I am. not in a position to say how many unions the manager of the New Zealand Shipping Company has to deal with, but there is a large number, and that is where we claim we can quote a comparison in support of our case. With regard to the move of the Amalgamated Society for direct representation, the society claims a membership -of 6,400, and they consider that because 3,107 voted, therefore it has been carried. There are 3,293 members of the society who have not voted at all, or whose votes have not been recorded, and yet the engine-drivers, firemen, and cleaners who belong to our association are to be coerced into it because 3,107 members of the Amalgamated Society say we are to come in. I say that is not a fair proposition, and it is not one that the Amalgamated Society should expect us to seriously entertain for one moment. Mr Veitch put in a letter that was written by somebody in Christchurch away back in 1880 I thought first he got it out of the Museum, "but it appears it has been stored up in the records of the Amalgamated Society as a curiosity The Amalgamated Society we say was a good society when it started, but it did not start till ten years after that letter was written The best work it ever did was when the membership was 1,000 strong and no more. It was a small society when it got from a Conservative Government the greatest concession that New Zealand railwaymen ever got, and that was the fifty-four-hour week—nine hours a day—in 1890 Now, we are 1,000 strong and more, and I say" the Amalgamated Society of Railway Servants has never achieved such a forward move as on that occasion. It certainly was a good society, and for man)' years it did a great deal of good. There is no reason why it should not do good now but we say that for our purpose it is useless. We helped that society along, and we have taken a very active part in it for many years, but it is a well-known 'fact amongst leaders of trades-unions that members of an amalgamated society drawing the higher pay can be of great assistance in lifting the lower-paid men up, but when it comes to getting higher pay for themselves they are in the minority That is the reason that, after the drivers, and firemen, and cleaners have assisted this Amalgamated Society and been loyal to it for over twenty years, they find themselves as regards pay in a worse