T. PABATA.

33

I.—3b.

Mr. l'aruta: To the base of the hills, from. Maungaatua to Mount Grey. And the point 1 desire to make is this: that even though the Maoris were misled and humbugged by Mr. Mantell on these matters, and even though Sir John Hall subsequently, in the year 1868, signed the deed on behalf of the Governor, and even though the Government in that same year passed an Act to validate the signing of that deed by Sir John Hall, still the Maoris were' not satisfied, but declared that they had bean misled and defrauded, and have continually petitioned the House stating these facts; and Parliament has recognized that they had been misled, deceived, and defrauded, and that the Act which was passed, called the Ngaitahu Validation Act, in 1868, did deliberately and intentionally validate a fraud. The Parliament of that day, sir, evidenced the fact that they recognized that the xMaoris had been defrauded by the passing of that Act by setting up a Select Committee to inquire into the grievances alleged by the members of the Ngaitahu Tribe, and gave effect to petitions presented to Parliament in the years 1873, 1874, and 1875. Parliament set up a Royal Commission to inquire into their claims, and the Commissioners appointed were Messrs. Smith and Nairn. They were empowered to demand and require the attendance of any person they desired, any private individual, any Ministei of the Crown, or even the Governor himself; and they were also empowered to demand the production of any papers or documents which they considered necessary, and they had all those documents submitted to them, and the Maoris also appeared before them and stated their claims and grievances. Mr. Kemp and Mr. Mantell were called before them, and appeared before them at Kaiapoi. And I myself was personally present when Mr. Kemp gave his evidence before that Commission. Mr. Kemp was asked by Mr. Izard, the solicitor acting for the Maoris appearing before the Commission, whether, in selling to him, the Maoris had parted with their kaingas and rnahinga kai i.e., settlements, cultivations, food-workings, such as fishing-grounds, eel-weirs, bird-grounds, and any other places where any kind of food was obtained, killed, captured, cultivated, or produced in any way whatsoever; or with their wahi tapus, or sacred places, and he said, " No," that they were not contained or included in the sale. Mr. Kemp said lie thought he had promised the Natives when he bought the land from them, that when it was surveyed the Government would cut out and set apart large areas of laud, which would be ample reserves for them and their descendants after them for all time, independent of their kaingas which they then occupied, and that those and all the cultivated laud and other food-workings would be returned to them out of the land sold. Mr. Mantell subsequently gave similar evidence before the Commission of Messrs. Smith and Nairn. A large majority of the surviving chiefs attended before I hat Commission, and gave evidence exactly as lam now stating what took place. The Commissioners called upon Governor Grey to appear before them. They also called upon Captain Symonds and other influential Europeans, who understood the position, to give evidence. And I submit to this Committee, the Government, and Dominion that that was, above all others, a Commission before which everything was placed, and thoroughly disclosed, and threshed out. This Commission adjourned' from Kaiapoi to Waikouaiti, and heard further evidence there for, I think, about a week. At Waikouaiti the Commissioners had no interpreter, and they asked me to act as interpreter, and 1 was sworn in to act in that capacity, and I acted as interpreter for the old people who appeared before the Commission at that time. The Commission adjourned from Waikouaiti to Riverton for the purpose of hearing the evidence and claims advanced by the Maoris of that district, who, for want of means and other causes, were unable to attend the sitting of the Commission at Waikouaiti. Messrs. Commissioners Smith and Nairn were satisfied that the Maoris were correct in their contentions, and that what was said by them was borne out by the original deed of purchase by Mr. Kemp. Evidence was given before them by Mr. Kemp, and Mr. Mantell, and Captain Symonds, and other men of standing and position who knew the particulars of the matter. The Commissioners prepared their report to be submitted to Government, but before it was completed the Government went out and a new Government came in, Mr. Bryce being the Native Minister in the new Administration. Then, in the years 1887, 1888, and* 1889, a Joint Committee of the two Houses were occupied in perusing, discussing, and dealing with the report of Commissioners Smith and Nairn. This Joint Committee occupied part of two years in inquiring into the mattei-. They were occupied during two sessions of Parliament collecting and hearing evidence; and they also required Mr. Mantell to appear before them, and he gave similar evC dence before them to that which he had previously given before Commissioners Smith and Nairn, and also before the Select Committee of Parliament of the year 1872. 1 say that the Joint Committee, although they realized that the Maoris had undoubtedly been prejudiced and injured, deliberately wronged and throttled the Maoris. Their report was that a further Royal Commission should be set up for , the purpose of inquiring and ascertaining how many Maoris were absolutely landless, and how many were insufficiently provided with land, and how much land should be set apart for the adequate maintenance of each individual, and where such land should be situated. And the outcome of that was the eventual appointment of Mr. Alexander Mackay as Commissioner. What 1 want to point out is that Mr. Mackay, when appointed to that position, was a Government servant, and therefore it could not be expected of him that he would act contrary to the wishes and interests of his employe]-, the Government. Neither could it be expected that he, as a Government servant, w-ould carry out the recommendations contained in the report of Messrs. Smith and Nairn. The Maoris were all under the belief that the 'recommendations of that report would be given effect to, carried out, established, and made good. Mr. Bryce tried to prevent the completion of the preparation of the report of Messrs. Smith and Nairn by refusing to grant them extension of the original period for which they had Been appointed as Commissioners, and declining to make them any further grant of money for expenses ; but in spite of his action it was presented to the House, laid on the table, and printed and circulated. Parliament accepted that report. There it is in print. Well, Mr. Mackay sat and inquired into these matters during the term of office of the Stout-Vogel Government, in which Mi-. Ballance was Native

s—l. 3b.