22

[t. J. WALKLATE.

I.—B.

49. That was only for two? —But that was with a view to equipping the whole of the cars. 50. I have no doubt that if you had applied to fit the whole lot your application would have been granted; but you only applied for two, and that was granted?— But the matter has not stopped there —the correspondence goes right up to the present time, although we are not doing any more testing owing to the idea, that the air brake would not be acceptable to the Department. 51. But why not put the responsibility upon the Department by making the application and giving them the opportunity to refuse? —But we consider that we have put the responsibility upon the Department. The correspondence is continuing with the Department with a view to testing another form of brake. 52. But you have not yet applied for permission to install any other brakes except those you have on?—No, sir; but we have a, letter from the Department setting forth certain conditions that a brake to be acceptable for the Auckland cars must fulfil. The tests that were made of the air brakes, I understand, were not considered sufficiently good to moot those requirements of the Department. 53. On the other hand, I. think they were very satisfactory? —Unfortunately there is a misunderstanding. 54. 1 have got reports made of those tests from the engineers, and I would advise you to make application to the Department in writing for permission to use a certain brake, and put tin- responsibility on the shoulders of the Department of refusing it? —Yes, sir. 55. What power would the motorman have to apply to the hand-brake coining down Parnoll Rise on a greasy line?—l am afraid I cannot answer that question, but a greasy rail would not mean that he would have to apply more power than on a dry rail. 56. I am not so sure about thai : but take it with any rail? With an ordinary pull? 57. Five hundred pounds?—No, a man could not. pull 500 Ib. : somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1201b. 58. Are you sure it would not be 300. lb? —I do not think so. 59. But supposing your men are prepared to make an affidavit that it is sometimes 300 lb. and over? —I should like to know how they arrived at 3001b. 60. A man could tell how- much he pulled? —It could easily be decided by your officers in Auckland with a dynamometer. 61. Do you often have runaways on the steep gradients in Auckland? —No. 62. Are they reported to the office?— They are reported in the ordinary way to the office. The motormen are instructed to report every accident, whether of a minor or important character. (i.'i. Rut (hat would not necessarily cover a runaway? —Yes, the instuctions are so wide as to include a, runawax . 64. How many runaways have you had?—l cannot say I have seen a, report of a, single runaway, but 1 heard evidence before the Brakes Commission that, there were runaways. 65. Did you ever get any letters from me as Minister of Public Works, or from the UnderSecretary, telling you that you would have to go on with the work of putting the brakes on your trams in Auckland? —Yes. 06. Would you mind reading it?—On the 24th September, 1909, we received a letter from the Department as follows : " Replying to your further letter of 9th instant on the above subject, 1 am directed by the Minister of Public Works to inform you that the Department requires a brake to be installed on all cars used on the above-mentioned tramways which will be capable of stopping-any car carrying 50 per cent, in excess of the seating accommodation of such car within a distance of 60 ft. when travelling down a grade of 1 in 14 on a good rail at eighteen miles per hour, and within double that distance on a greasy rail. lam to add that the Department considers that the brakes used on the Wellington and Dunedin electric tramways, and all the cable tramways there, and several other brakes now in use in England, including the Freund brake, are more than able to accomplish the above results." 67. That letter had left it entirely to your option to put on any brake you liked?— Yes; and, acting upon that letter, I immediately cabled Home for Freund brakes; and there are seven sets being manufactured now as quickly as possible to be sent out. 68. Did your company get any correspondence from the Department on the same subject previous to that letter? —There has been a continual correspondence with the Department. 69. And what sort of answers were you sending in reply? —I can read any letters that you wish. We replied from time to time stating what steps we had taken to comply with the requirements of the Department. 70. But we have never been able to get you to say that you were going to put the brakes on within a certain time? —Well, sir, we have not arrived, or, at least, I considered we had not arrived, at an understanding as to what would be the brake that would meet the views of the Department. 71. We left it entirely to your option? —Yes; and in regard to the Freund brake the Department says, I think, that they would more than accomplish the purpose. 72. There are three or four different makes of brakes that would be able to do that? —The Dunedin tramway has the magnetic brake. The only other brake that is definitely mentioned, the cable brake, is impracticable. There is no room to put the cable brake on the electric cars. The only other brake is the Freund brake, and we are using the "utmost despatch to put that on. That is not like the Newell brake in course of manufacture, and we cannot go and cable for them. That brake is not in course of manufacture. The only sets we have are the experimental sets. 73. Do you ever get any complaints from your men about the heavy work they have in applying the hand-brake? —There were complaints made before the Brakes Commission, but personally I have had no complaints.