1.—14.

7

R. AYRES.

106. Your only objection seems to be that everybody, whether a herbalist, chemist, or any one else, would have to make known the contents of the medicines they put on the market: you understand the difference in a man going into a place and getting medicine prescribed and the selling of a pill, draught, or anything else I —Yes. 107. The only difference under this Bill is that if a chemist or any one else sells a proprietary medicine he must supply the formula ?—Yes. 108. I want you to understand that any man going into a herbalist's shop can be prescribed for under this Bill, and there is no necessity to deposit that formula with the Board? —I understand that. 109. With regard to the constitution of the Board, I might say that we are all human, and that certain things might be done; but does it not commend itself to your common-sense that this Board would be composed of men of such high standing that there is not one chance in a million of any unfair practice being carried on by the Board 1 You see that the constitution provides for the highest men being picked out of the wrofessions I—l1 —I said " honourable men." 110. Would any but honourable men get the positions?— That is the point. \ Benjamin Freebury Gardiner examined. (No. 3.) 111. The Chairman.'] What is your occupation? —Medical herbalist. 112. Where do you carry on business? —At 50 Cuba Street, Wellington. 113. How long have you been in business? —I ten years, and my partner, Mr. Hardie, about twenty-five years. 114. Have you passed any examination?— No. I 15. Have you read the provisions of this Bill? —Yes. 116. You are the secretary of the New Zealand Association? —Yes. The New Zealand Association of Medical Herbalists has been established for about two years. 117. 1 presume you are speaking on behalf of the association? —Partly on behalf of the associa tion and partly on behalf of the firm. 118. Having read the provisions of this Bill, are there any clauses which you or.your society take any exception to; if so, state the particulars'—There is only one clause, and that is as to what constitutes a registered herbalist. 119. AVhat is your view? —Taking the Bill altogether, I should say a member of the association; but looking at these things it is not always what is intended that is made clear. 120. Mr. Hornsby.] What is your objection?—l want to know what is a registered herbalist. 121. A herbalist registered under your society?— Yes, that is sufficient for me. 122. The Chairman.] You think the herbalist should be registered under-your association? —I think " registered herbalist " should be denned so as to give the exact meaning. 123. Is there any other suggestion you wish to make?— With reference to the disclosure of the formulae, I think the public should be protected, and I do not see any way save this. There are objections, but I suppose there would be objections to anything. 124. Do you think it would open up a larger field of business for New Zealand herbalists and chemists if a great deal of what we know as worthless medicines were got rid of?—I think on the whole it would tend to be beneficial. 125. You are aware that there are so-called medicines largely advertised which are practically of little value, and are often of a harmful nature?— Yes, I think there are a good many instances where the bottle and the label are about the worth of the article. 126. And you are also aware) no doubt, from your reading and knowledge that with regard to many valuable standard medicines the formulae are supplied on the labels? —Yes, in other countries that is so. 127. And that many of these so-called patent medicines are simpy taken from formulae or prescriptions that are obtained from books bearing on the subject? —Yes, I think there are some.^ 128. After all, having regard to the medicines that are well known, is there so much originality in connection with the make-up and manufacture of so-called patent medicines as alleged?— Thai is rather a difficult question to answer where one does not know the formula. Unless one knows the formula one cannot talk with any degree of certainty of lines like those. 129. No doubt you have seen the results of analyses of patent medicines?—l am afraid a great deal of the analyses are worthless. One chemist will say one thing and one another. It seems to me it is rather a difficult matter to get at the result. 130. You know that in murder cases a man's life might depend upon the evidence of the analyst? That is so; but still I maintain that the result is no credit to chemistry. If you take any formula, especially vegetable compounds, they will tell }'ou that one is often so-and-so, while another says it is so-and-so. 131. You have no faith in analyses? —I have in some. I have a patent medicine which it was said was submitted to a gentleman in this colony, and a fee of £10 was paid to him for analysing it, and the result was as different as chalk from cheese. 132. Is that man a medical man in this country?— Yes; I believe he is Dr. Black, of Christchurch. 133. What was the article?— Mr. Palmer said it was absolutely different to their own formula. 134. It was Vitadatio? —Yes; and he said it was entirely different, and he was prepared to give the formula. 135. You are aware that the evidence of analysts is accepted by the highest Courts in the WO rld? That is so. I think certain things can be found, but there are others that cannot be found. We may to a large extent give the principals, but not the actual component parts. 136. You have never passed any examination in chemistry?—No; I am only giving my opinion,