44

H.—29.

[A. W. MCKBLLAK.

118. Mr. Foster] What 1 understand is this: combustion, if it commences will create a gas and it would soon consume the oxygen. You know in the case of the producer-gas the coke is put in the bottom of the furnace, and the air passes through the coke and it does not reach a stage of incandescence. What I understand you to mean is that although it may be red-hot, it may not actually consume ?—I think you have misunderstood me. I think it could be in that state. 119. You mean that it could be in that state and yet cannot flame? —Yes; that is what I understood you to say. 120. My impression is that you are right—-that no flame can exist without the necessaryoxygen ?—That is what I contend. 121. I think there is no doubt about that?—There is a certain amount of oxygen in wool, and if you put moisture in the wool you get more. Professor Lewes, of the Greenwich Naval College, who was the principal witness at the inquiry into the " Waikato " case, said in the course of his evidence that all greasy wool, after coming off the sheep's back, sets up a chemical action, and the more moisture you put in the wool the more chemical action you set up. 122. The Chairman] Who was that? Did you say Professor Lewes?—Yes. At the present time I am waiting to receive a copy of the evidence which a shipmate of mine, who was also a witness in the case, has. That was in 1896, and the case was not over till 1899. Captain Moorhouse, of Auckland, has promised to send me down that evidence of Professor Lewes's. 123. The Chairman] We should be very glad to see that evidence if you can procure it? —I shall be very pleased to let the Commission have it. It was his evidence on that point of chemical action on the wool that won the case, and there is no doubt he appeared to put the matter beyond all doubt. I was very much interested in the case at the time, and the whole case hinged upon the possibility of that chemical action upon the wool. So far as lam aware the only thing the professor did not do in the course of his experiments was to have the wool under pressure. He experimented with it wet, damp, and otherwise, but he never had it in the bale. 124. Mr. Foster] No experiment would be satisfactory that did not embrace all the conditions of a ship's hold. It would have to be in a confined space, under pressure, and also confined as to air—as close as a ship's hold ?—And that would be a very difficult thing to do, because you could never have the variations of conditions that would be present in the case of a ship's hold, such as the sudden changes of temperature —externally—which would be caused by change of force and direction of wind. The only other case I have seen of heating of wool in New Zealand was several bales we had sent back, and in that case it was fellmongers' wool. 125. The Chairman] Sent back to be reconditioned? —Yes; there might have been others that have escaped notice ; but in this case upon opening the bale you could see what appeared to be lumps of lime in and about the wool. I suppose that was on the side of the skin. 126. Mr. Foster] That would be the chemicals used in fellmongering the wool: it is a mixture of lime and soda? —Those lumps I saw would be the calcium, then. 127. They paint the fleshy side of the skin, and pack them skin to skin for a certain time, and the action of the chemicals frees the wool from the skin and they peel it off. The wool experts seem to think there could be no danger from that cause, as the lime would have been previously slaked ?—Yes, 1 heard the evidence about that; but it is possible that it might not be thoroughly slaked. That stuff 1 saw looked to me like a lump of unslaked lime. 128. Of course, one expert stated that the lumps of lime, if thrown into the water and not properly granulated, would drown and not slake properly. But this mixture that is used is liquid; the brush is dipped into it and it is painted on, and it is possible that what you saw was an accumulation of the residue as it had trickled down the skin and settled at the corners and dried. Did you notice in those lumps any change of condition ?—No, I only remember that I saw the bale and refused to take it, and it was sent back to be reconditioned. 129. I should fancy that that would be due to a collection of the lime-water, otherwise it would have broken out when exposed to the air. It would have crumbled away. Have you noticed if there has been a larger proportion of low-conditioned wool —locks, pieces, &c. —shipped this season as'compared with previous years? —I could not say at all. I loaded in March, and we may have had the same class of wool as the other ships, and yet we had no appearance of heat, 130. Do you think you took any special care to notice any heating of wool on your ship?—l do not think so. It is a very difficult thing. If the lighters come alongside in the roadstead and put the wool aboard it would be a very difficult thing to feel every bale carefully. It is generally the stevedores who call our attention to any heating they may find. 131. Do you think you have had a very careful lot of stevedores —more careful than the other vessels —I do not think so, take them as you get them. There must have been something in the wool that went into the other ships that was not in that which I took. 132. And a lot of luck? —Certainly we must have missed the heating bales. I have never heard of any of the consignees growling about heat—that is, except in the case of the " Waikato." 133. Captain Blackburne] Was the whole of the "Waikato" cargo damaged?—Two of the holds. There were two classes of damage: one heating in a certain number of bales, and that set up sufficient heat to seriously damage the fibre of the other bales. 134. It originated in the lower holds?—Yes. 135. Do you know whether that particular hold was warmer than the others?—l do not think so. There were two holds affected, one insulated and the other uninsulated. 136. Mr. Foster] The ships are in the habit of giving clean receipts: you will not give those clean receipts unless the appearance is right?—That is so. 137. Does that only cover the outward appearance?—Do you include any sort of warranty as to the internal condition of the package? The Chairman: We have settled that in law. It does not, 138. Mr. Foster] In that case would the ship be likely to hear of any cases of heating?—No: I think not unless one comes in contact with the consignees and happen to hear of it in conversation —not officially.