H.—29.

40

T. F. MOFFATT.

29. What system of ventilation had she?—Ventilators, two to four generally, about the centre of the holds. 30. Do you think the cargo could get wet through Ihe ventilators in any heavy rain? —No. 31. Do you think the cargo might get wet while being taken in in heavy rain?—l do not think that would cause fire for the amount of wet would never penetrate the bales. I have taken in cargo during rain, but it never got wet except during the very heaviest rain. We would only take it in on a push while il was raining, and then the bales would only be about a quarter of a minute in the rain from the time they left the shed till they were lowered into the hold. 32. The only danger would be while it was in the square of the hatchway?—We never allow it to stand there". First of all we have them most carefully covered. We never have the hatches of the orlop decks off to allow the cargo to be exposed to the rain. 33. But if yon were taking it in in rain a good deal would accumulate on the hatches and in the square of the hatch?—Well, if it was so heavy as that we should put them on and stop work. 34. Do they always do it?—Undoubtedly. I think they are very careful. It is a most exceptional thing to take wool in while it is raining. However, Ido not think there is any danger of our doing that, because we should be liable to very heavy damages if we had the cargo spoiled. If it were wet and there was a great amount of friction going on it might rub into fire, but there is never sufficient friction from the way it is stowed to cause any heating. 35. The Chairman] You do not screw it up?—No; it is stowed very much looser than it used to be, and the ships are very much steadier than they used to be. 36. Mr. Foster] In any case, there could not be sufficient friction to start a fire? —I do not think so for a moment. 37. I suppose to set up much heat from friction the contact would have to be tremendously heavy?—Yes. 38. And then, 1 assume, the two bodies in contact would have to be very big in order to retain the heat? 39. The Chairman] And very free draught?—The friction would never be long enough in a ship to do any harm. If a ship got into a gale of wind she might roll a bit for a couple of days, but that would not cause any degree of heat, 40. Mr. Foster] You think we can discard any likelihood of friction?—You may put that away altogether. lam perfectly certain myself as to the cause of the fire, as to how it has arisen, but what was the cause of the fire itself in the first place is what is required to be found out. 41. The Chairman] We can eliminate the question of friction, then the other circumstances must have been such that without the friction they were sufficient to cause ignition : Is that not go ? —Yes. I am perfectly certain that if the bales of wool had been in the Harbour Board's shed here they would have taken fire just as well as in that ship's hold. 42. "Mr. Foster] Did you see the bales that came out of the " Gothic "?—No. 43. I was wondering whether you could tell us whether they were lock's and pieces or fleece wool?—It was not locks and pieces. To a certain extent I know what sort of wool it was, and for several reasons I would far sooner not say. I have my own reasons. 44. The Chairman] Was it bellies?—l do not think it was, as a matter of fact, 45. Mr. Foster] Ido not ask you to disclose the ownership? —It is a matter of business. You will get the details from the authorities. That is the best way, and you will be absolutely sure. 46. If you tell us the class of wool it was, and tell us the brands, we can without any delay get to the origin of it? —Yes. Well, I have nothing to say about that phase of the question. Well, to come to the " Rimutaka." Her fire took place whilst discharging after she was in dock. I cannot give you any particulars of the fire, any more than that it broke out on a Saturday night when most of the hands were away ashore, and only an officer in charge. Anyhow, the fire brigade filled up the hold with water, which caused a good deal of damage 47. Captain Blackburne] They had the Clayton fire-extinguisher there? —I am not sure in the. case of the " Rimutaka." In the case of the " Waimate " they had, but they had to put into port to get a supply of sulphur to charge it. 48. The Chairman] What is the use of an applianceif you have to run into port to get supplies?—l understand that you require such a large quantity of sulphur to run it. 49. Mr. Foster] To keep it up?—We use carbonic-acid gas ourselves, and that is the best thing going. 50. That would not suppress the cause of the fire?—No, not the cause of the fire. 51. That is the point: that if wool once gets to the point of incandescence, all those things will not do any good so long as you do not suppress the cause that creates it. If you use a Clayton machine you would have to keep it up all the voyage Home?—You would have to suppose that every bale would be in the condition to take fire. There might only be four bales in a fire. Ido not think there would be likely to be any more. 52. The Chairman] The Clayton machine can cool the temperature—that is, apart from putting the fire out? Assuming the fire to be extinguished, vou could keep it running at a slow ra te?—To cool the temperature? Cooling the temperature will not prevent a fire. 53. If you bring the temperature of the hold down, and then take the Clayton off, you could ascertain if the temperature rose again to a certain fixed extent? —Of course, the temperature of the hold will always regain its normal —that is, it will rise to its former point. 54. Yes, but if it rose in temperature you would know at once that there must be something causing that rise in the temperature?—Yes. Well, I have seen the two machines, and I think there is no doubt about the carbonic-acid gas being the best. 55. Captain Blackburne] I think it was the "Whistler" that was afire, and they were just about to scuttle her. The underwriters asked that they might be allowed to try the carbonic-acid-gas machines, and the fire was put out in three days without any further damage to the ship or cargo?—Yes ; that is the one T am speaking about.