H.^-29.

G. fi. SCALES.]

19

61. That is exactly what we want to get at?—l have not referred to that, because I take it the Harbour Board's officials will be able to give you that information, and from me it is only secondhand. 62. Have you heard of a case of wool being treated last 'season and breaking out again— the case of the " Ruapehu," for instance? —There was a steamer on fire at Napier, just before the " Jessie Osborne " case. 63. Captain Blackburne.] The "Waimate"?—Yes; I think a lot of that wool was reconditioned and was reshipped, and a fire broke out in it again next day, and it had to be again reconditioned. 64. Mr. Foster.] Did you see anything of that particular case? —I forget. I cannot call it to mind. 65. Can you say anything as to the temperature of these particular bales? Have you handled them in a heated state ?—I really could not say, because I have seen it in that condition more than once; it was only the other day that we had a case on the wharf. The Harbour Board's people noticed a smell, and turning down the stack came to a bale which had heated. Of course, you could not bear your hand in it. 66. You have no theory as to the necessary temperature required to be generated before becoming dangerous ?—No. 67. Have you inspected any of the wool at the wool-sales during last season?—None. 68. It was given in evidence that wool came in in a bad condition to the wool-sales, and it was also stated that where the wool was too damp to be sold here it was sent on in the same condition ? —I do not know anything about that. James Scott Maclaurin sworn and examined. (No. 6.) 69. The Chairman.] You are the Government Analyst? —Yes. 70. You understand, I suppose, the object of this Commission?—Yes. 71. Perhaps you may be able to give us some information with reference to the causes, or what may be supposed to be the causes, of spontaneous combustion in wool and flax?—Yes. Well, of course I have no special knowledge of the subject. I have a general knowledge of both matters, but I have no special knowledge in regard to wool and flax, and so on; but I should say that the cause was due to oxidation, caused either by the action of oxygen alone, as in the case of wool with oil. Many oils oxidize very rapidly: linseed-oil is the extreme case of oils of that kind, but most oils oxidize more or less. Any oil will absorb a certain amount of moisture from the air, and so become heated if spread over a sufficient surface. Then there is another cause of heating, which would be the action of bacteria, which would naturally be an initial action. They could not cause combustion, because they would be killed by the time combustion was reached, but they might start the action. We have all sorts of fermentation set up by bacteria, and you have a case of wool or flax containing organic substances: wool, for instance, containing dirt of any kind, animal matter, and so on, would, of course, clearly contain a number of bacteria, and these under favourable conditions would set up a certain amount of fermentation; they might heat the cargo to a certain extent, and then oxidation would go on and cause combustion. 72. Mr. Foster.] Have you made any special study of the conditions of wool, &c. ?-—No, I have not made any special study. 73. Do you think you would like to make an investigation before saying anything definite?— I think so. I think before this Commission comes to a finding on independent grounds, that information obtained by it should be laid before one or more people who are competent to make an investigation. 74. But 1 suppose you would not be prepared to go very much further than the statement you have already made until you have had time to investigate?—No; I can only go on general lines—of chemical actions that take place under certain conditions. It is well known that spontaneous combustion is caused in rags containing oil, and also it is well known that cargoes of coal take fire spontaneously. That is due to the oxidation, the coal being broken up very fine and absorbing a large amount of oxygen. The heat cannot get away —that is the main cause. Oxidation does not take place more rapidly than it does in a case of this kind; but the heat cannot get away, and, of course, there is overheating, especially where the coal is very much broken up. 75. The Chairman.] And that exposes a very much larger surface?—Yes, of course; and, as I say, the heat cannot get away —that is the great point; but as to the best methods of shipping wool and flax, and so on, of course I cannot say anything very definite. 76. Mr. Foster.] Would the presence of moisture add to the risk of increasing the temperature in wool? —Well, in the case of wool I am doubtful if it would; but I think that in the case of clean wool the action would be oxidation and the oil; but in the case of dirty wool it would probably add to'the risk, because there the bacteria action would take place, as the moisture is necessary for them. Of course, a certain amount of moisture is necessary for oxidation, but it is only a small amount of moisture that would be present; but for the development of bacteria to a high extent a considerable amount of moisture is necessary. 77. Captain Blackburne.] Would this be greater if wool or flax was stowed in a hot place like over the boilers than it would if stowed in a cooler part of the ship ?—That gives a higher initial temperature. If it is purely a matter of oxidation, then the hotter it is the more readily it will ignite. 78. Can you suggest anything with regard to a system of ventilation which you think ought to be adopted on steamers? —Well, that is hardly a point I can go into at the present moment. 79. Some years ago they used to ventilate coal both by surface ventilation and through ventilation, but they came to the conclusion that through ventilation was very dangerous in ventilating a coal-cargo. A Royal Commission was set up in London, and they recommended that nothing but surface ventilation should be adopted ?—What was the form of through ventilation 1