J. A. MURDOCH.]

3

I.—llA.

25. Mr. Golvin.] How long have you been on the Kumara? —Thirteen years. 26. How long is it since you began speculating in mining? —Only during the last two or three years, 27. Were these debts contracted previous to that? —Yes. 28. You state positively that you do not know any company with which you are connected that owes any part of this £1,000? —No partnership that I am in. I might have shares in a registered company which has a current account, but they are quite able to pay, and I know that after every washing-up they do pay. Mr. Aitken was more particular with a company than with a poor miner. 29. In giving this credit the Manager allows the man to take the water with the chance of not receiving payment, but if he did not give him the water would it not run to waste? —Yes; the supply has been far greater than the demand for the last seven or eight years. 30. If the Manager did not allow the miners to get the water it would run to waste? —Yes, into the ocean. 31. Therefore the Government as owners say, "We are not losing anything by allowing these men to prospect"?— Not the slightest. There was no wear-and-tear when the sluices were open. The proof of that is that miners have not been short of water for the last seven or eight years. 32. Mr. Wood.] What is the amount that the miners pay for their water: what does it run into during twelve months?—lt is according to the shifts they take. The shift is 6s. 3d. for ten heads. Some claims only take one shift a day, others two. 33. Is it £1 10s. or .£1 a head ? —Sometimes there would be four men in a party, sometimes three, and sometimes five. A year ago it was i2s. 6d. a shift. 34:. How much is the total for the year?—l cannot say. 35. Mr. W. Fraser.] You said it was 12s. 6d. a shift: for how much water?— Ten heads to each party, with an addition for flushing channels. 36. How many heads are there in the race?—l suppose they can deliver a hundred heads on the field if the water-race is full. 37. How many parties are taking it?— When I went there, twelve years ago, there were forty parties taking it, but they would not work all the day long; they would work in shifts. 38. I understand that this £1,000 has been written off: has it been absolutely forgiven to these men?— There has been no express writing-off. 39. You stated that none of your claims owed any of this money to the Government?— That is so. 40. Do you mean of this £1,000? —I mean of this £1,000 or any other money. We may have a current account from one washing-up, or four-weekly period, to another, and that would be paid. 41. I wanted to make that clear—that that would not be in this £1,000? —No. 42. You said you might have had some shares in a registered company which might owe money to the Government ?—Yes. 43. But that is not in connection with the £1,000? —No. 44. Right Hon. R. J. Seddon.] If the statement has been made that the Mayor of Kumara owned most of this £1,000, is that correct or otherwise?—lt is absolutely incorrect. 45. There has been ample water for those who wanted it, and in letting these men have it the Manager has not been debarring any others from getting it?— That is quite correct. 46. Therefore the letting of the water to these men was not a loss of revenue in the ordinary sense? —No; it cost the Government nothing. They were never short, but had an abundant supply, and it meant giving the miners a chance not only of paying for that washing-up, but in many instances to pay up arrears for the previous months. 47. Hon. Sir W. 11. Russell.] How long have you been Mayor of Kumara?—This is my third year of office as Mayor of Kumara. 48. And the statement the Premier alludes to, that much of this money is owing by companies which the Mayor of Kumara is connected with, could not apply to your predecessor?—l do not know anything about him. Mr. Byrne, my predecessor, Ido not think had any shares at all. I think he was Mayor for five years. If he ever did, I feel sure it would have been paid. The Chairman: Having heard the statement made by the Premier, I asked the honourable member who is alleged to have made the statement referred to to be present, and, if he wished, to examine the witness. Mr. Hawkins: The statement I made in the House was this: I stated that it was alleged that the Mayor of Kumara owed a considerable part of this £1,000. That was my information. I did not say positively it was so. I have just heard what the Mayor of Kumara has said, and I am perfectly satisfied with his answers. 49. Right Hon. R. J. Seddon.] Is the number of miners and the claims in payable ground falling off? —Yes, very fast. 50. There is now a large surplus of the water on the field that is not used?— Yes. 51. Do you think it advisable in the interests of the field itself and of the investment in the race that further prospecting should be done to test new ground?— Yes, I think it would be if the water were carried over the Teremakau River, because you would get an abundant demand for the water on highly payable ground. 52. Is there any other place lower down the field?— Yes, I think there is all about Kumara, and down to the sea-beach it would pay if facilities for sluicing were given by the Government in the way of constructing sludge-channels. 53. What would be the effect if cash peyments were demanded for water on the field as it stands? —Miners as a class are unable to find any cash. All the cash is invested in the plant and in putting the claims in the necessary order, and if they had to find the money in advance it would block poor men from taking any of the water at all.