I.—4a.

8

[DENIS O'BRIEN

their pay. I think about half a mile, or thereabouts, would be enough and would suit us very well; even then the major portion of the men would have to walk considerably further. I would like to know if " mine " in the Bill means " mine-area," because the boundary might be a long way from the mine-mouth. I refer to section 7of the Bill. 124. That means the mine-mouth ?—Well, I think that half a mile from the mine-mouth, or thereabouts, would suit every purpose. With regard to suggestion No. 7, " That miners' unions be empowered to take extracts from time-books and wages-sheets," we desire that amendment because we do not always know the rates that are paid to the miners. There are about a dozen different branches of labour, consisting of shift-men, fillers, truckers, firemen, engine-drivers, horse-drivers, &c, and they are all paid at different rates, and we are at a loss to know what rates they are paid at. In the event of a dispute arising we have found that they have been paid less, and by being empowered to take a copy of the books we should be in a position to know what they were being paid. 125. Would it suit you if, as was suggested when Mr. Foster was giving evidence, you got duplicates of the pay-sheets ? —Yes. 126. With regard to clause 6, " That provision be made for a superannuation fund for the benefit of all coal-miners," do you agree with that ? —Yes ; but I have only knowledge of our own case. Our fund was put separately under the Denniston fund, and then we registered ourselves in May, 1900, and up to the present time £1,800 approximately has acumulated. At present before a man can get employment he has to go through a very rigid examination, and then if he happens to be' oft through taking a holiday or in consequence of any slight cold or sickness he is subject to examination again. The result is that a considerable number of miners may be out of employment when they are contributing to this fund. I should like to see the fund made a colonial fund, and if the various funds could be reduced to one general fund the scheme might be worked very easily. 127. Mr. J. Allen.] You said the miners contributed to this sick and accident fund. I do not know what means. Who does directly pay ?—The public, I think ; the industry, we say. 128. But who does the law compel to pay ?—The mine-owner. 129. With reference to this superannuation scheme, have you thought out how the thing could be worked, what benefits should be given to the miner, and how the funds are going to be provided to meet these benefits ? It is a very difficult thing ? —lt is a very big thing ; but is it quite necessary. We base it on this per ton fund, but we will contr bute proportionately. 130. Have'you any idea as to what benefits the miners should receive from the superannuation fund ? —Yes ; assistance to those rendered medically unfit by accident or age. 131. intend that it should apply to miners retiring at a certain age ? —Certainly, a miner is medically unfit then. 132. Not necessarily. Do you know anything of the ordinary superannuation schemes ? —Yes. 133. A man has to retire at a certain age and he gets certain benefits ?—Yes. 134. Have youfthought it out at all ? —Yes ; it would apply in such a case. 135. What benefits would a miner get—so-much percentage of his earnings ?—We do not want any distinction to be made in the wages. There are no big wages, as far as we are concerned. 136. Have you any idea of the number of miners employed ?—We have about four hundred at our place. 137. There are about 2,800. How many of them are retiring each year ? Have you any idea what funds would be required to provide for superannuation ? —I would make it optional, not compulsory, and let those who wished to embrace it do so, as in the Railway Department. Those who wish to join should pay half and the industry should pay the other half. 138. Mr. Hemes.] You have a Miners' Union % —Yes. 139. That has a sick fund, I suppose ?—No; we have a medical association. 140. If any subsidy were given to provide for superannuation I suppose it would be better if under the control of the union ?—Under the medical association, that controls the Jd. a ton fund with us. 141. You are not working under preference to unionists ?—No ; but it is understood by the management as well as by us that the men have to join. There are officials who are not in the union, but who are under the medical association. 142. Would it not be possible for the medical association to get a superannuation scheme of its own ?—That would be different so far as the miners are concerned ; but say that we are working here and a new mine is opened next to us and the men agree to change places : if anything happens there is nothing to meet that. 143. You want a fund for the miners generally I—Yes; for the whole colony. 144. Mr. R. McKenzie.] Why do you think that a superannuation fund is necessary for miners and not for others ?—Simply because they are discarded now so far as the fund is concerned, and when they leave have to look for work elsewhere. 145. Does that not apply to other men ?—I know of no other men who have to pass an examination and get no benefits if they are thrown out of work. 146. Do you not think the character of the employment is a justification for a superannuation fund ?—Yes. ' 147. Have you gone into this question in any way thoroughly ?—Yes, so far as our own mine is concerned. I have based my views on that. 148. Have you considered how much the men would have to pay at certain ages ?—I think we should have to pay something if the scheme were subsidised by the State. 149. The scheme would be similar to that of the Railway people ?—Well, they had no basis to work on, and we have. 150. You have the sick and accident fund and consider that as a start ?—Yes, and the Railway people had no fund to start on.