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Joseph Willis — Page Contended that declaration did not cover alleged breach, but related solely to postal packets .. 10 Postal packets did not include Treasury vouchers .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 10 Ist paragraph of declaration to be read in conjunction with remainder of olause .. .. .. 10 His ignorance of Rule 44 .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 10 Frequency of its being broken .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 10 Source of Department's information re these oharges .. .. .. .. .. .. 10 His own statements before Auditor-General .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 10 Necessity for making these .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 10 Denial of making information " public " ; had simply handed it to M.H.It. .. .. .. 10 Had done so knowing it might be used politically .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 10 To Charge 2 had given qualified admission .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 10 Was ignorant of Rule 44 then, and did not admit breach now .. .. .. .. 10 Then he thought he was doing his duty, but now would take a somewhat different oourse .. 10 Discussion between Chairman and Mr. Willis .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 Chairman : Contents of telegram constituted its impropriety, not the actual sending of it .. .. .. 11 J. Willis {continuing) — Telegram related to Mr. Taylor's motion for inquiry .. .. .. .. .. 11 This inquiry neoessary because honour of witness and oolleagues involved .. .. .. .. 11 Considered he was giving information for public good, and ignorant that he was thereby committing breach of regulations .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 Referred to length of service and reoord .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 Alleged breach a technical one .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 Its relating to Premier immaterial .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 Meaning of word " charge," in telegram .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..11 In reference to Mr. Taylor's motion : Mr. Taylor came in as a representative of the men involved .. 11 He had been in same Volunteer corps as Mr. Fisher .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 He had seen the voucher between January-December, 1904, through Mr. Laroombe calling his attention to it .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 He thought it indicated a shady transaction at the time .. .. .. .. .. 11 Questioned Captain Seddon's capacity for work, not rightfulness of voucher or payment .. ..11 Suspicious that services were rendered in Wellington, but payment made in Christehuroh .. .. 11 Had seen other vouchers since that had been indefensible from taxpayer's point of view .. 11 He gave Mr. Fisher information merely as a clue .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 He did not consider the fact of Mr. Fisher's opposition to the Government .. .. .. 11 He was an intimate friend of Mr. Fisher's .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 He retained his rights as citizen and taxpayer .. .. .. .. .. .. 11 He thought he had a perfect right to supply information to a member of Parliament—a trustee of public 11 He considered himself competent to judge of Captain Seddon's capacity .. .. .. .. 11 Mr. Fisher's first source of information was not witness .. .. .. .. .. 11 Witness was personally responsible for the sending of telegram ; the other men consented, at his suggestion 12 The affidavits were prepared by Mr. Salter, of Christehuroh, from information supplied by men charged .. 12 The suggestion that they should be made emanated he supposed from Messrs. Taylor and Fisher, and they made arrangements with Mr. Salter .. .. .. .. .. .. 12 Speaking generally, witness had been " running the show," and the other men followed in his wake .. 12 He had not seen any Cabinet minutes re disclosure of information .. .. .. .. .. 12 The questioning of officers' veracity had been the only motive for sending telegram ~ .. 12 Hβ had had experience in Auckland as well as in Christchurch .. .. .. .. .. 12 He was still confident, absolutely, of having seen voucher .. .. .. .. .. 12 Mr. Fisher had asked for information re voucher, of which he had given witness date and amount .. 12 Witness had supplied information obtained from record-book, which was always open to inspection of clerks 12 He had had correspondence with Messrs. Fisher and Taylor, but had not preserved all of it .. .. 12 He was employed solely by Post Office .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 12 The latter portion of declaration would prohibit disclosure of information re Savings-Bank deposits to outside persons .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 12 Book of rules was signed by men in most haphazard manner .. .. .. .. .. .. 12 He had made some extracts from record-book re Treasury vouchers .. .. .. .. 12 Under the oircumstances, he considered this imperative .. .. .. .. .. 12 He had had many conversations with Mr. Fisher, but had not discussed voucher at time of SeddonTaylor case .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 13 The first time it was mentioned was after opening of Parliament .. .. .. .. 13 Useless to mention charge to Mr. Mcßeth .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 13 The occurrence of other matters subsequent to the voucher had decided his course of action .. ..13 Mr. Joynt, counsel for the four officers .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..13 Decision re existence or non-existence of voucher .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 18 Mr. Rose to call counsel .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..13 J. Willis (continuing) — Mentioned information outside first to Mr. Fisher .. .. .. .. .. .. 13 Did not know of any grievance against the Government by Mr. Fisher .. .. .. .. 13 Mr. Fisher had first questioned him re improper payments to Captain Seddon .. .. 13 Query definite to this extent, not general .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 13 In reply to Mr. Fisher's question he gave information re voucher .. .. .. .. 13 He would swear that he gave Mr. Fisher amount and date .. .. .. .. .. .. 13 He had given Mr. Fisher full particulars in writing (from memory) .. .. .. .. .. 13 He had first discussed this aspect of question with his oolleagues on morning after publication of debate in House .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 13 Intermittently they had previously discussed the voucher .. .. .. .. .. .. 13 He did not want the publio to know how the information came out .. .. .. .. 13 It was assumed that witness's name should not be mentioned by Mr. Fisher ;no promise .. .. 13 He had not mentioned his connection with Mr. Fisher to other officers ; they were not concerned then .. 13 He was anxious to get their corroboration only after matter had been brought up in the House .. 13 All the way through he had been the leading spirit .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 13 He had written out the telegram ; Mr. Laroombe had seen it, Messrs. Lundon and Wost had not; but all consented to it on his suggestion .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 14 Richard B. Mobris, Chief Clerk, C.P.0., Christehuroh— Officers concerned had worked under him ; confidential nature of work pointed out to them; all had signed regulations .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 14 J. Willis: Charge No. 6 withdrawn .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..14 W. J. Larcombb — Charge read .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 14 Declaration, Rules 1 and 44 put in .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..14 Admitted all four charges, subjeot to explanation .. .. .. .. .. .. .. 14 Length of service .. .. .. .. ■ ■ .. .. .. .. 14

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