11

G.— 7

acres are reserved, it will meet the case. If any claims ever arise they must be brought out, but Ido not think such a contingency is likely." I shall not say very much more ; but yesterday I noticed there were several expressions of opinion as to what should be done before any award should be made, and they resented Mrs. Brown as sole arbitrator, and I will read a letter from Mrs. Brown's solicitor, which shows that Mrs. Brown considered that she was taking up the whole of the case for her hapu, because Mr. Morrison, writing for Mrs. Brown on the 4th May, 1904, in a letter to the Native Minister, says, " I have the honour to inform you that Heni te Rau (Mrs. Brown) has consulted me with reference to the claims of herself and other members of the Ngatimutunga to 3,000 acres, Block VIII., Waitara. In view of the fact that the land has been dealt with by the Crown as Crown lands, I am instructed to say that Mrs. Brown, on behalf of her hapu, will agree to payment of compensation instead of land. Furthermore, she will agree, in the event of the amount of compensation being mutually agreed to between yourself and the Hon. the Minister of Lands on behalf of the Crown, and Mrs. Brown, on behalf of her hapu, to accept Government debentures to the amount of the compensation payable—say, five or seven years, with interest at 5 per cent." I have nothing more to say, Mr. Mackay. The Commission is set up to inquire if any of these absentees who never had any of this land given back to them are still alive and would have participated in the claim if they had been living at the present time. Their share, of course, is confined to the 16 acres. Whatever recommendations you may see fit in your wisdom to make, the claimant must recollect this, that this is not a Native Land Court, which has finally to decide the matter, but when your recommendation is made it will be then for the Government to consider the whole matter. Mrs. Brown then proceeded to make some remarks in Maori. The Commissioner : I do not think this is the proper time to reply to that. We were asked yesterday to say what the Government intended to do. You have now been told that, and have been informed of the position you have now to take up in the matter. You have now to state your claims, and you will have an opportunity of commenting upon the whole case, and upon what Mr. Kensington has now said, at a later stage of the proceedings. This would be the course pursued in a Native Land Court, and I intimated at the commencement of the sitting that I would be guided as much as much as possible by the practice and procedure of the Native Land Court. Mrs. Brown : I wish to make an explanation upon two personal points. Mr. Kensington remarked that I received 500 acres. I wish to explain that the 500 acres has nothing to do with my Ngatimutuuga shares at all. This award was given to me for land taken also by the Government at Mataihuka, near Waikanae, for which I petitioned the House; and in order to carry out this petition Mr. Sheehan consulted Major Brown as to where the land could be located. They decided that, as I had an interest in this district, the land should be granted here. This compensation was for Mataihuka, and not for my Ngatimutunga interests. With regard to my misapprehension relative to the Land Court and the 3,000 acres being under the Public Trustee's control, I knew nothing of this until the Land Court met, and this, as I explained the other day, is how I came to know that the 3,000 acres were set apart; and we were under the impression that the portion that my people and myself were occupying was a portion of that 3,000 acres, and it was not until the Court opened in 1902, under an application by the Public Trustee, that I and these people knew that we came under the control of the Public Trustee. When I went to Wellington Mr. Poynton himself said, " Where is the balance of the 3,000 acres?" This is how the matter came up. Mr. Fraser two days afterwards discovered that the 3,000 acres were ouside the 700 acres that my people were then occupying. Mr. Fraser then asked me to put in a petition, which was altogether different from this one. He presented the petition himself, and that is the cause of my statement to the Court. I think my petition therefore will show what I have just explained with regard to Mr. Kensington's personal remark in connection with my misapprehension with regard to the 3,000 acres. The Ngatimutunga who were then living upon the land thought at the time they were put in possession by Major Parris that they were holding portion of the 3,000 acres which was awarded them. I then discovered that we were under the control of the Public Trustee; but we all wanted to remain as we were according to the Maori custom. I sent this petition because Mr. Fisher told me that the Public Trustee said that a portion of the land was to be leased by him and a portion to be left to the tribe. Mr. Fisher : Only as far as the absentees were concerned. The Public Trustee took no high hand in the matter. Mrs. Brown: It was then we found that the promise that if the people remained loyal their reserves would be returned to them to be held according to Maori custom was not being carried out. I had no idea of the working of the legislative machinery, and it was not till then I discovered that if my people wished to occupy the land they had to ask the Public Trustee. Mr. Kensington : The position of the ground was never altered. No portion of the Ngatimutunga ever occupied the land after it was surveyed and marked out on the ground. Mrs. Brown: This is why I wish to explain the position of the 3,000 acres. The Commissioner: This petition can be read any way. "It was then that they found that the Public Trustee had control of their lands." No doubt the Public Trustee had control of the lands which were placed in his hands, but those which were never placed in his hands he could not have control of, and this 3,000 acres comes under that category. You are, then, this amount to the good. Mrs. Brown : I wished to explain the position of the 3,000 acres. What Mr. Kensington said is perfectly correct. The Commissioner : We will proceed to take evidence. Have you got that list of names yet, Mr. Martin ? Mr. Martin : I wish to ask a question, as I want some information. Now, it is possible that there may be some other people included who may have gone away ; they may belong to Nelson, Waikato, or other places, or may have gone away in a similar manner to the Ngatimutunga, and