G.—7

6

111. PROCEEDINGS AND EVIDENCE.

Thursday, 11th May, 1905. The Commission met at the Masonic Hall, New Plymouth. The Interpreter read the notice appearing in the New Zealand Gazette and Kahiti of the 6th April, 1905, notifying the inquiry. The Interpreter was sworn in. The Commission was then read in English. The Commissioner: As Mrs. Brown, Mr. Martin, and Mrs. Hopere understand English, there is no necessity to read the Commission in Maori. The petition will be upon this table, and can be seen by any Maoris whenever they require to do so. Mrs. Brown, Mr. Martin, and Mrs. Hopere signified their assent. The Commissioner : I received a copy of your petition, Mrs. Brown, and it is in English. As it is only right that the Maoris should know what you petitioned for, I sent to Wellington to ascertain whether there was a Maori version of it, and I found from the Clerk of the House of Representatives that it was presented in English, and that there is no Maori copy ; but thinking a translation might be useful, I yesterday evening wrote out a Maori version, and I shall be glad before the petition is read out if you will look over it and say if it exactly conveys your meaning. The Commission then adjourned for twenty minutes in order to enable Mrs. Brown to read the petition. The Commission resumed at 10.35. Mrs. Brown then stated that the petition was not what she wanted. The Commissioner : Is there any material difference between the last petition presented and this one ? Mrs. Brown (Heni te Rau) : They are nearly alike. The Under-Secretary for Lands (Mr. Kensington): I wish to state that this is the petition upon which the Government decided to act. This is the petition which the Native Affairs Committee reported upon, and this is the petition which the Commission has under consideration. Mrs. Brown said she was content to have the translation adopted. The petition was then read in English and Maori. The Commissioner: The petition being read, I will now read certain claims which have been forwarded to me. The first is an application which was sent me by a Native called Rewi Maaka, who is a Ngatikoata, and says he was married to a Ngatimutunga woman. He sends a claim in on behalf of his daughter. The Commissioner then read the letter (see Appendix B, (2).) The Commissioner : The next letter is one I have received from the Chatham Islands, sent through Mr. Shand, licensed interpreter. Letter read in Maori and English (see Appendix B, (3).) The Commissioner : I am very pleased that Mr. Shand has sent in this letter from the Chatham Islands; but there is one thing lam sorry about, and that is that the claimants have put in claims for their sisters, and their cousins, and their aunts, without particularising ; but it is my intention to at once write to Mr. Shand and request him to give me the names of the whole of the Ngatimutunga who are at the Chathams. That may take some time, but it will make no difference, as the same principle will apply to them as to the people who are here. I shall ask Mr. Shand to distinguish between adults and children ; in fact, I shall ask him to group them in families. lam informed (I saw it in the paper some time ago) that a number of those people went on a mutton-bird expedition and were drowned, and I wish to particularly ascertain who are the descendants of these people. I think this is sufficient explanation ; and what I now propose is that any person (first, of course, Heni te Rau) if they have anything to say to say shortly (I am not going into the case now) exactly what they wish done. Then, you having said what you wish done, Mr. Kensington will explain the Government's view of the matter. After that, I will carry on the proceedings in precisely the same manner as a Native Land Court Judge would. I shall now proceed to take evidence as to whether any of these Ngatimutunga have had land allotted to them ; and, in the case of any deceased persons, I shall make similar inquiry as that which would be made by the Court in the case of succession orders. Now, Mrs. Brown, if you are ready I will go on; but if, after hearing all these documents, you would like a little time to consult your friends, I will give you an adjournment until 2 o'clock. Mrs. Brown preferred that there should be an adjournment until 2 o'clock. Mrs. Roko Hopere came forward. The Commissioner : Who are you appearing for? Mrs. Hopere ; I appear for certain Ngatimutungas in the Waikato. The Commissioner : Now, Mr. Martin, who do you appear for ? Mr. Martin : How did the Ngatimutunga come by this land ? The Commissioner : I am not going to answer questions now ; I wish you simply to state whom you appear for. Mr. Martin : I will not worry you, but will wait simply until the case opens and then I will state who I appear for. The Commissioner: How the Ngatimutunga came by this land will be explained by Mr. Kensington, who is representing the Government. Meanwhile I want you to make out a prima facie case, and when you have done so Mr. Kensington will explain matters.