G. MAUNSELL.I

43

G.—s.

123. Out of 1,300 acres there were only about 400 acres not leased ?—I suppose that is the kaurigum land. 124. Mr. Quick.] With what view would you settle Maoris on it ?—I would make a model settlement and have the people close at hand to keep up a school there. My proposal is that they should give land, not to parents but to the children by nominal lease. 125. Mr. Hutana.] Are you a member of the Church Mission body who assembled at Hopuhopu in 1873 ?—Yes. 126. Was the object for which the meeting was called with a view to establishing schools in these parts ?—Yes. 127. You would like to see schools established in these localities ?—Yes.

Auckland, Wednesday, 21st June, 1905. W. S. Cochrane (examination continued). [Witness produced a further detailed statement of receipts and expenditure.] 1. Mr. WardelL] How is it there are no rates between 1892 and 1898 ? —During Crawford's tenancy he paid the rates. During the present tenancy the tenant is paying them. There are no rates owing. 2. Mr. Quick.] Do you know what is the rateable value of the property ?—We have had no notice served on us. Native schools are all exempt from land-tax, and consequently the tenants are only rated for Road Board purposes. I think the rate used to be on a valuation of from ss. to 6s. an acre, and now on about 10s. per acre. It may be more, because a good many improvements have been made during the last few years. I cannot say what the Government valuation of the land is. 3. Mr. WardelL] Have you received any account from the tenant showing how the £500 was expended ?—No. He has written to say he has spent it. He did most of the clearing during the first two years. 4. Have you called on him for particulars ?—Not yet; we intend to do so ; his time is just up. I produce a list of boys maintained at St. Stephen's by the various trusts. The only accessible register is from 1892. The room was burnt down in 1904, and all prior registers are burned, so there is no means of telling what boys were maintained previous to that time. This list shows that we have maintained fifty-seven boys from the Waikato since 1892, of whom sixteen are still there. I produce particulars of the present lease of the property. In regard to Hopuhopu, I produce a statement of receipts and disbursements. I can find no trace of any receipts and expenditure during the years from 1854 to 1884. Part of the time there was a missionary—the Rev. B. Y. Ashwell, who had the use of the land, did all the improvements, and put up some buildings. 5. Mr. Quick.] In regard to the note at the end of your statement,Tryou";mean '"that during the whole of this time, if there was a balance, it was used for the maintenance of Waikato boys at St. Stephen's ?—Yes. It was paid into General Account from year to year, and went towards the maintenance of the boys as far as it would go ; the same applies to all the trusts. I produce particulars of the leases of the property now current. 6. Mr. WardelL] Is it the same property that McDonald was paying £30 for that was let'to Stewart for £12 ?—No ; the former took the whole 1,385 acres. He was not a man of means, and he could not keep it. After that, efforts were made to let it in portions, and a complete survey was made with subdivisions. McDonald was the only tenant who took it as a whole. A reserve of 47 acres was set aside for the Maori clergyman stationed at Hopuhopu, for the purposes of a vicarage and maintaining himself. It was found to be too large ; he could not keep it clear, and he agreed to allow a Maori, Piripi Pena, to have 32 acres. 7. Mr. Quick.] Have you any recollection whether in the early days, as far back as you cau:go, the noxious weeds were as troublesome as they are now—had they found their way into the Waikato ? —Yes ; the first time I went up I had them pointed out to me ; there was sweetbriar, but not so much gorse. 8. Mr. WardelL] Clearing gorse and rabbits seems an annual charge ?—For some years it|was. 9. Is that charge continuing ?—No, the tenants have to do it now. 10. Are there any special covenants in any of the leases ?—ln some the first] five years are free ofjrent, on condition that the tenants clear the land. They all have improvement clauses. 11. Is there any covenant for renewal ?—Not in all; in some there is. 12. There is no increase in the rent ?—No. 13. The Chairman.] How did you get the power to lease ?—We acted on the advice of our solicitor. This is the opinion under which we acted, taken from the Church Gazette, December, 1904 : " In pursuance of the instructions of the Synod last session, the Board obtained an opinion as to their legal position in regard to the leasing of country lands. The opinion was that the Board could exercise the powers of leasing conferred by the Public Bodies' Powers Act without restraint of any kind, the said Act giving power to grant leases for twenty-one years with covenants to grant renewals for periods of twenty-one years at any one time, or to provide for the payment for improvements at the end of the term, and that under section 5 of ' The Trustees Act Amendment Act, 1894,' it is within the powers of the Board to grant leases for twenty-one years, containing a provision for the renewal for a further term of twenty-one years at the same rental and on the same conditions. The General Synod were asked to empower trustees to grant leases under the provisions of ' The Public Bodies' Powers Act, 1887,' and Amendment Acts, 1891 and 1896, but the motion was lost because the Synod could not give such authority until clauses 24 and 26 of the constitution were repealed. The Synod, however, took the first steps necessary by passing a statute, and if this, statute is re-enacted at the next session of the General Synod, it will then be competent for the Synod to invest trustees with those powers."