G. MAUNSELL. J

41

G.—s

Rev. B. Y. Ashwell: If the land is not applied to the use intended in three years' time, let it be returned to the original owners to cultivate. Extracts from Hochstetter, 1859. Taupiri: The missionary school numbers 94 pupils—46 girls and 48 boys. Otawhao is one of the principal stations of the Anglican Church. A church, a school, &c, meadows, and smiling fields have taken the place of an old Maori pa. Upon the fertile banks of the Waikato, above Taupiri, there appear settlements with beautiful farm lands—Hopuhopu, Pepepe, &c. Deed of Gift, Kohanga, 1853. This is the word of us, the Chiefs of Ngatitipa, a tribe living at the mouth of the Waikato River. This is a deed of gift from us to Governor Grey as land for Queen Victoria and her Yes, Governor Grey consented to this, that the land should be given to the Church of England in New Zealand as land for schools for the European and Native children, to cause them to grow up as churchmembers in good behaviour. Governor Grey consented that the place for the dead should be separated and fenced lest cattle, &c, should trample on it. 75. Mr. Quick.] Are you stationed in the Waikato ?—No ; I have been removed to Auckland, where lam doing Maori work. Occasionally I visit the lower Waikato. I still belong to the Church Missionary Society. 76. Mr. Wardell.] Have you seen the £200 given by your father in any of the accounts ?—Yes ; in an account rendered to the General Synod a year or two back. 77. What was it given for ? —The cattle belonging to the estate were sold at the time of the war, when the school was broken up, and the money was given for the benefit of the Kohanga school to the trustees. 78. Has it been invested ? —No ; it was put into the Native Pastoral Fund. I brought the matter before the Synod, and they passed a resolution re Kohanga that the trustees be instructed to try and get the tenant to concede a suitable site for a school, or else that they should purchase a site from an adjoining property. 79. Has the £200 disappeared ?—They say the amount is still untouched, but the proceeds have been used and invested with other moneys of a similar character. 80. Was this invested in your father's lifetime ?—lt must have been. 81. Did he not protest ?—I do not know whether he troubled himself about it. He died in 1894. 82. What is the quality of the land at Kohanga ? —lt is fair grass land. We used to cultivate it. The institution was an industrial one. The method of work was —so-many school hours and so-many hours working on the farm. We had a man named Spargo as agricultural instructor, who went out with the pupils. 83. What year did you return after your long absence ? —ln 1900. I know the land from 1855. I lived there for seven years and was for two years schoolmaster there —in 1860 and 1861. In 1900 the land was all overgrown with gorse. 84. It was at that time let on lease for twenty-eight years : does it strike you there was anything remarkable about the conditions of the lease —twenty-one years at Is. a year ?—No ; I thought it was fair because of the dense gorse. 85. Then at the end of twenty-one years the rent was to be £37 10s. : what about that ?—That is a very moderate rent; under present circumstances, Ido not think it is a fair rent. There are large swamps there, but the present tenant gets 7s. a ton royalty on flax growing there. He must get from flax alone a great deal more than his rent. 86. Do you know that flax is taken off the estate ? —I was told so by the Maoris, who told me last January they were paying Mr. Muir a royalty for it. 87. Present circumstances do not apply to eight years ago I —No ; it was as much as they could get at the time they let it. 88. Do you know anything about the flax-market eight years ago ?—No ; I cannot say I do, but if I remember right, it was pretty good. 89. Are you able to understand the statement that the net income from the property since the foundation of the trust to June, 1904, has been £32 13s. lid. % —lt is the first time I have heard the statement. I have often wanted to get hold of it. 90. Does it come as a surprise to you ? —I never knew that they had got any income from it. 91. You are surprised it is so much ? —Yes. 92. Mr. Quick.] You have heard the prior evidence? —Part of the Bishop's and Canon MacMurray's ; and I saw Mr. Cochrane's in the paper. 93. Your father having devoted a large portion of his lifetime to this particular district and the Natives, your sympathies are in the direction of having a local school ? —Yes, undoubtedly ; and the Maoris have impressed it on me that we have dealt unfairly with them in not having local schools. 94. They are petitioning to have the land given back to them ?—But they want local schools, for all that. 95. Then their petitions do not represent their wants I—When1 —When you take petitions like that you have to look at the names. If they have all the names of the tribe they would be unanimous. I recognise several names in the petition (1898) re Hopuhopu. 96. Would those people whose names you recognise be under the influence of Mahuta ?—They would do anything he instructed them to do; they would not do anything without his sanction ; I should think they signed under his instructions. 6—G. 5.