if. "HERE

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86. What is the condition generally of the children in this district ?—My knowledge of the condition of the children who have had no education at all is that there is a tendency to ignore parents. According to European ideas and motherly care of children, young children ought not to be allowed out late a nights, but this you will find existing in a good many parts of this district. Ido not say there is an absolute ignoring of parents. There is a great deal of fault to lay at the feet of the parents. They require a higher and better knowledge of the proper care of children, and that is why I say the girls ought to receive particular attention. And in a school such as this, all that knowledge which tends to create a better understanding of the motherly care to be bestowed on children should be taught. The affections of the Maoris are great and more than great for their children, but affection can be overstepped, and this does go on with Maori parents. 87. If the Commissioners were to decide for the expenditure of the Whitireia funds in the Wairarapa, according to the Supreme Court scheme, what would be the effect on the Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa ?— The people would feel very sore indeed. My opinion in regard to it is this: Mr. Quick said the other day that there is not a penny of the Whitireia funds paid for children attending the Wairarapa school if they are not West Coast children. I should like to state, if it is the case—and I can quite believe the statements made by the Ngatiraukawa that they will not send their children—the position would be that the Whitireia funds would remain idle, and no one would benefit by them. 88. It would be going on accumulating as it is now ?—Yes. I should like to make this suggestion to the Commission, should it decide on allowing the Whitireia funds to go to the Wairarapa, and the Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa children refuse to go there. My suggestion, so as to give the benefit to the children of the donors and their people, if a scheme could be devised to allow loans to be advanced to the Ngatiraukawa and Ngatitoa residents in the district to enable them to improve their properties and obtain money for the betterment of their homes and children, which they cannot get now. 89. If the Otaki Mission School is not assisted by means of this trust fund from Whitireia, but goes to Wairarapa, what would be the position of the school here ?—lt would be entirely useless. The education here at the mission school is not sufficient; it is waste of money. Even supposing Archdeacon Williams or his successor asks the children who are capable of passing the Fourth Standard to go on to Te Aute, even the education at Te Aute is not sufficient; unless there is something to back it up in the shape of learning trades, it will go for nothing. It is not sufficient unless a boy has particular application to further his knowledge. 90. You have come to the conclusion that the only scheme which will be effective to benefit the descendants of the donors will be the scheme which has been put before the Commission ?—I believe it is the only one which would give the majority of the boys of the two tribes the best opportunity of gaining a practical knowledge of things, enabling them to support themselves and their children. 91. You do not mean that the scheme must be adhered to literally in detail, but the general main outlines of the scheme ?—That is so ; the Commission may alter it, but these are the major points. 92. Mr. Quick.] Do I understand you to mean the major points are amalgamation of the trusts, a good sound English education on primary lines up to the Fourth Standard ?—lf the school could go on to the Sixth Standard it would be very much better. 93. But the gist of the whole thing is good, sound, technical education ?—That would be the only means of giving success to the school. 94. If these three essential points are gained by the recommendation of the Commission, that would meet the case ?—lf a standard up to the Sixth were maintained, and a good technical knowledge be imparted ; and you must have the means. 95. Mr. Wardell.] Then, as to higher education, you think it could be best supplied by children being sent from here to Te Aute or Victoria School, so as to limit the education here to the Sixth Standard ? —Yes. I ought to say, if the funds are found by the administering body to be capable of extending the standards to be imparted to the boys, it should be done here. But if the funds would not allow, then, I say, limit to the Sixth Standard, and where there are intelligent boys, allow them to proceed to Te Aute, or if their parents are able to send them to a higher school or university, that should be done. But if the funds are capable of teaching higher education in this school and technical knowledge, it should be all combined in this. 96. You were a St. Stephen's boy ?—Yes. 97. Were you educated elsewhere ?—I began in a country school in the Bay of Islands. 98. Does St. Stephen's commend itself to you as a good means of education ?—Yes. Though owing to agitation, the Department began teaching technical education abaut five years ago; before that, I think, St. Stephen's has done more for the children who have not been able to get higher education to keep themselves for life than any other school. 99. You would represent this as according with your ideas as to what education should be ?—Yes, knowing the capacity of the Maori intellect. It is for the duller lot of children I recommend a knowledge of trades. 100. Mr. Chapman.] How did the paragraph about religious education come into the scheme ? Who first brought it forward \ —The Natives themselves suggested, when he matter was discussed, that the Otaki reserve was given for the benefit of the Ngatiraukawa as a whole. Among those there are two sects of religious bodies—the Roman Catholics and the Church of England—and it was their knowledge of this fact. They said the Roman Catholics ought to receive the same benefits as the Church of England, and, therefore, the better course is that no religion at all should be taught in the school. 101. But the original gift of land was essentially for religious education ? —That is so. The Native reply is, " We do not consider the original intention, because the trustees have not fulfilled the intention of the original donors."