C—4.

W. B. SCANDKETT.]

3

private institution that has its agents in the district to see that the stock and other securities are there. All men are not on the same moral plane, and occasionally a lender finds that an old horse has been substituted for a young one. 24. Then, the Advances to Settlers Office is not able to comply with all the needs of the settlers ? —No ; but it is able to supply any loan required on fixed improvements. 25. You say there is no increase in the value of holdings to-day other than the actual improvements made by the tenants: has that been your general experience in Southland?— Yes, on open tussock lands. I will state you a case: The Athenaeum trustees are the owners of 1,000 acres of land a few miles from Invercargill. They leased it twenty-eight years ago at 2s. 6d. per acre, and fourteen years ago it was valued again at 2s. 6d. per acre, and recently it has been valued again at 2s. 6d. per acre. Of course, taking the improvements on some of the farms, the land is worth £5 per acre. 26. Then, there has been no increase in the value of lands in Southland for the last twentyeight years ?—I do not say that. The value has increased, but the increase is in consequence of the improvements. 27. But there has been no increase in the value of the land itself over the last twenty-eight years ?—Not in bare tussock land. 28. Mr. Forbes.] Has not the Corporation of Invercargill a quantity of land leased out as dwelling sections ?—Yes ; there are about a hundred and fifty town sections. 29. Is there any feeling they should sell these lands ?—The Borough Council is altogether opposed to selling the lands, and the leaseholders have never asked the question, because they know we would nob entertain it. The leases provide revenue for all time. 30. On what terms are thesS leases let ? —For fourteen years. At the end of that time the Corporation and lessee each appoint a valuer, who fix the rent for the next fourteen years, and also the value for the improvements. Then that particular section is advertised at an upset rental. As a rule, with only two exceptions in the last thirty years, the original leaseholder has again secured the section. It was always recognised that the rent was a fair one, and that the leaseholder has a prior claim. 31. But the occupier has no option at all: the section is put up in the open market at the end of the term? —Yes. 31a. And the lessees are satisfied with this arrangement and with the terms ?—They have never expressed any general dissatisfaction. 32. If borough leases can be received with satisfaction, would not the same satisfaction be felt by Crown lessees if the Government went on the same lines ? —lf a man takes up a lease under certain conditions he does so with his eyes open, and it is his duty to carry them out. 33. It has been represented that the Crown tenants are not satisfied with the conditions of their leases throughout the country, but do you find that the lessees of the Borough of Invercargill are dissatisfied with their terms ? —No. I know the Crown tenants are anxious to purchase the freehold, because in some cases they could borrow money much easier. Generally they could effect more improvements and place themselves in a position to borrow more money. I find it is easier to raise money on freehold than on leasehold properties. 34. That is your experience of Crown tenants, but it is exactly opposite to your experience of borough lessees? —I do not know that there is much difference. 35. I understand these leases are wholly town leases?—We have some country land. 36. Is that leased on the same terms ?—Yes. It is bush land, and brings in very little revenue in the meantime, although it is very close to Invercargill. 37. Mr. McCardle.] You have some experience of the working of the Advances to Settlers Office :do you know on what basis they make advances to leaseholders ?—Up to half the value of the improvements. 38. Do you think that is a satisfactory plan for the leaseholder?— Well, improvements are liable to decay, and it is the duty of the Government to protect its money. lam not quite sure that-they ought to lend more than that. 39. Do you not think it would be far more equitable if advances were made on leaseholds on the same basis as they are made on freeholds —namely, up to three-fifths of the valuation ?—As a rule, I think the Government, in making these advances, gives three-fifths on the freehold and onehalf of the value of improvements in the shape of buildings. Well, the principle is the same, but you must be very careful in lending on leasehold. 40. You have mentioned the question of restricted area: have you thought out what form that should take, or the acreage of land a man should be entitled to hold ?—That depends on the quality of the land. 41. Knowing that under the Land for Settlements Act the Government gives 640 acres of firstclass land and 2,000 acres of second-class land, do you think that the same principle, if applied to the general settlement of the country, would be suitable for the people ?—I think, perhaps, that it would be in the interests of the country, although 640 acres of first-class land would be a very small area for a pushing man. It is a very difficult question to deal with. I think there should be some limit, but in fixing it I think the Government should be guided by the circumstances surrounding each case. 42. Mr. Hall.] You are aware that in certain parts of New Zealand there are large country endowments ? —Yes. 43. And you would not advocate a policy of selling these endowments?—l would not. 44. When you speak of Crown tenants obtaining the right to purchase the freehold, do you include the tenants on partially improved estates ?—Yes. 45. Would that be fair to the State ? —Yes; because the Government would get the value of the land as fixed, and. the money would bring them in 4 per cent, interest. There would be no loss. 46. The Chairman.'] The Government are getting 5 per cent, for the improved settlements under the Land for Settlements Act? —I thought it was 4 per cent.