WILLIAM JONES.]

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the British Islands. Some time ago a deputation waited on the Minister of Marine, and also some time previous to that on Mr. Seddon, and Mr. Seddon promised to look into the matter as regards the shipping-fee. He said that if he found the fee did not obtain in the United Kingdom he would see what could be done towards doing away with it in New Zealand. Where an individual agreement takes place, and where the man is only in the vessel a short space of time and is simply a substitute for another person, we consider it very hard, in view of the small amount of wages he gets, that Is. should be deducted. We think there might be something provided whereby these men who only sign on for a temporary engagement should go clear of paying any shipping-fee. 105. Of course you are aware that it involves work connected with the Shipping-master ?— We admit that; but it is very hard where a man is only on a ship for a few days, and we have many such instances, and he has to sign on and off. He pays Is. and the shipping company pays Is. Section 51 :We agree with the first part of section 51, but not with subsection (2). We consider there is ample facility for youngsters to go to sea in New Zealand without making them either one thing nor the other—that is, giving them A.B. discharges for two years' service in a steamship. Provision is made for the certificate of discharge showing the rating. I have never seen a discharge indorsed that the man is entitled to the rating of an A.B. for steamship-work only. We consider that in the interests of public safety and public property all seamen should be duly qualified. These men who go and do two years in a steamer and get qualified as able seamen get into other vessels and are simply a nuisance. We find from actual experience that they do not know one end of a ship from the other. We would like to see the provision struck out. Seeing that we have to depend for our officers and masters on the rank and file, from which they have to graduate, we consider it more desirable that these men should put in four years' service before being entitled to rate as able seamen. The British Act has no such provision, for, though the rating is somewhat similar to our own New Zealand Act, the British Act of 1894, which is the rating Act, reads that a seaman shall not be entitled to the rating of an A.B. unless he serves four years before the mast. I say there is ample provision made for New Zealand boys going to sea if they wish to go. But they do not go to sea on account of the inducements offering at present, which are keeping the boys back. They have something better to look to on shore. We consider it desirable that all men serving as able seamen shall put in their four years. It has never killed any one yet, and we have a better class of men on account of that. We have had some good evidence of this two-years-able-seamen business, and it has been found that they are a perfect nuisance on board ship. Section 52, subsection (1): We agree that seamen on signing articles shall produce their discharge, or furnish proof of being seamen. We think, now that we have competent men as mercantile Superintendents, that it is only necessary for them to ask a man a question or two to find out whether he is a bona fide seaman or not. Provision is made that if the Superintendent is satisfied the man can make a statutory declaration. But we have had instances where the men have made a statutory declaration before a Justice of the Peace and were no seamen at all. We have had such cases before a Magistrate, and have obtained convictions. Now that we have competent men acting in the capacity of Shipping-masters all that is necessary is to ask a man a few questions and the Superintendent can satisfy himself of his bona fides. 106. Are the instances you speak of of recent occurrence ?—No; not since we have had the Ship-ping-masters. What we now object to is this fee of 55., and for more reasons than one. In the first place, a man may lose his certificate of discharge by a fire or by a shipwreck; and, seeing that he pays a considerable amount of fees throughout the year in one way or another, this fee of ss. to enable him to sign articles is outrageous, and obtains in no other employment. 107. The object is to make him careful of his certificate ?—Well, they are not all Good Templars, but accidents will happen. I know of a case where a man lost all his clothes and papers through a fire on shore, and we had to send to England for copies of his certificates of discharge. And there are many other ways by which a man may lose his discharge. If it is a case of desertion there might be found some other way of dealing with the matter. But if the fee were made higher Ido not think it would prevent a man from deserting. Assuming that a man deserts, as a rule he is penniless, and the result would be, if a five-shilling charge for a permit obtained, that he either gets into gaol or is thrown on to benevolent aid, through having no means of paying the ss. The only way out of the difficulty is to allow him to sign articles, otherwise he is barred from taking employment. Section 53: We were very pleased to see, after having brought the matter to the Minister's notice, this item of "greaser" rating was inserted in the Bill. We consider it absolutely necessary that a greaser should be rated. Subsection (3) of the same clause : I would like to see the words "or greaser" added after the word "fireman." Section 55, subsection (3): With regard to this matter, we would like to see some provision made whereby a man would get his original certificate of discharge on leaving his ship. In a good many cases, in the Union Company particularly, where a good deal of this business is done with the purser, there are men who hand their certificates of discharge to the purser, and afterwards he (the purser) does not remember what he has done with them, and the onus of providing another one is thrown on the man. The purser through his negligence has lost it. This ought not to be. Provision is made in the Act for the discharge being cancelled by drawing a line through the name of the last ship. I suggest single discharges, and that the discharge be immediately given up to the man on signing articles after it has been cancelled, instead of remaining in the possession of the purser until he leaves the ship. This has been a great cause of complaint, and we would like to see some provision made for it. Section 65, subsection (1) : We would like to see the word " both" put in instead of "either" in the fourth line. 108. The Chairman.] If you do that you will simply render the whole thing nugatory. What is your idea ?—We think subsection (2) covers the thing entirely. 109. Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones.] The one is for larger and the other is for minor cases. The idea was to save even the sailor the cost of going to law, as well as the owner ?—There are Superin-