JOB LEADBEATER.}

13

1.—7.

Job Leadbeatee examined. (No. 9.) 19. The Chairman.] What is your full name ? —Job Leadbeater. 20. Do you belong to the First Division or the Second Division ?—The First Grade, Second Division, at the Petone Workshops. 21. Have you gone through this amended Superannuation Bill?— Yes, sir, we have, very carefully. 22. Will you kindly tell the Committee, as concisely as you can, what is your opinion in respect to it ?—The first question is as to the amount of money in connection with the Eailway Fund—whether it is possible to get that money placed in a fund whereby the old hands would be able to reap some advantage in connection with the Benefit Society ? 23. Mr. Wilford.] The answer to that is that you have got your benefits under the back services. Under this amended Bill every year of your back service counts? —Of course, that gets over that question altogether, then. Then, there is the question of how many of the railway servants live to be sixty years of age. 24. What is the proportion ?—I understand at the present time there are four hundred who are entitled to retire in the beginning of the first week of the year. 25. Hon. Sir J. G. Ward.] If those who wished to remain in the service did so the proportion would be very much greater, but there are scores and scores of men who have retired after they have got to fifty or fifty-five years of age. The average time of life for people is not sixty years of age ; that is well known. We cannot alter the average length of life, of course ? —Then, again, is it the intention, when this Bill is properly redrafted, to make all men retire over sixty years of age ? 26. That is at the option of the Department —the Minister. That is the case now. You cannot alter that in any case? —I do not see that there is any need for me to take up the time of the Committee further, gentlemen. There are all the things we have come for in the Bill now, and I think we will be satisfied with it. 27. The Chairman.] Have you read clause 23, "In any case where any payment is made by an award of the Court under ' The Workers' Compensation for Accidents Act, 1900,' to or in respect of any contributor the benefits that would accrue to or in respect of such contributor under this Act shall absolutely cease and determine during receipt of compensation under the said Act." That is only while he is in receipt of the contribution under the Workers' Compensation Act?— Well, that is one thing that we wanted to bring forward. 28. Mr. Wtlford.] Mr. Sherwin said, supposing a man claimed £200 under the Workers' Compensation Act and he only got £25, then he would cease from benefiting under the Act for the period covered by the £25. I think that is only fair. I think we can say you are quite satisfied ? —Yes,. I am quite satisfied with the Bill. A. H. Hunt examined. (No. 10.) 29. The Chairman.] What is your name in full ?—Albert Henry Hunt. • 30. What division do you represent?— No. 1, sir. 31. Have you gone carefully through this amended Bill? —Yes, we have given it a great deal of attention on two occasions —at the annual conference and lately at the special conference. 32. Well ; you might place before the Committee, as concisely as you can, the opinion of yourself and your fellow-members with respect to this Bill. Do you represent the executive?— Yes. We questioned what members were available this morning and they said, " Yes." Well, the result of our latest deliberations was that there was an opinion that contributions were rather high. We tried to gauge the matter as affecting every man in the service to the best of our ability, and we thought the contributions were rather high—that was, the 5, 7, and 10 per cent, of the salaries. It begins at 3 per cent, and is up to thirty years of age, then it is 5, 7, and 10 per cent., and we thought that it would suit the contributors better if the contributions were made slightly less, and the benefits adjusted accordingly. Of course, we were dealing with the man's ability to contribute to it and pay all his other calls made upon him. Then, we also thought that, in regard to men of Division 2 who lose time through sickness, and their amotmts would not appear on the pay-sheet, therefore no contributions would be made during the period of sickness. Many of the men only receive as a full payment during the year £100 or £105 — chiefly platelayers and labourers—and if much sickness had taken place the contribution would accordingly be so reduced that the benefit qualified for would be so small as not to be adequate for the support of the man on retiring, even although he had served the full period of forty years. We thought if a minimum was fixed at, say, £65 a year. Then, again, we thought the contributions might be reduced if the maximum amount to be drawn be placed at, say, £250, and we thought £250 a year would be enough for any man to draw as a superannuation. We discussed the matter fully. Then, with regard to clause 15, retiring-allowance. This clause reads that for every year of service he shall receive one-sixtieth part of his annual rate of pay, but in no case shall the total yearly allowance exceed two-thirds of such annual rate of pay. Well, sir, in the case of Division 1 a great number of the members have compensation due to them under section 76 of " The Government Eailways Act, 1887," and accruing up to 1889. Well, there is no mention here of this compensation if he elects to draw on the yearly allowance of the superannuation. No notice is taken of his compensation as is done in the case set out in clause 18, subclauses (1), (2), and (3). Under these clauses he has the option of drawing the compensation, or, if he dies, his widow is entitled to the compensation. The compensation is secure in these cases. When he becomes entitled to the yearly allowance of the superannuation his compensation is forfeited. That is a matter that will cause feelings of injustice, because a man should receive his compensation, because it is an amount that has really accrued to him, and if he is not to get