11

THOMAS WILSON.]

1.—7.

previous five years he has served in any grade beneath that held by him at the time of his retirement, in which ease such pay shall be deemed to be the average rate of pay received by him during the seven years next preceding his retirement." This appears to me that the average for the seven years is struck, provided he has been reduced in pay at any time previous to the date of his retirement, but if he was receiving that reduced rate at the time of retirement fhat average would not be struck, and he would receive the rate computed on the money that he received at that time. 24. Hon. Sir J. G. Ward.] That is an ordinary provision in connection with retirement ?—lt appears to me that provided a man was in receipt of the reduced pay at the actual time of retirement his retiring-allowance would be computed on the reduced rate. 25. That is not so; it would be very unfair ? —Well, I think, sir, that is all I have to say. With this amended clause 23, " In any case where any payment is made by an award of the Court under ' The Workers' Compensation for Accidents Act, 1900,' to or in respect of any contributor the benefits that would accrue to or in respect of such contributor under this Act shall absolutely cease and determine during receipt of compensation under the said Act," I am thoroughly in accord. 26. In clause 12 the section about the constitution of the Board and the quorum at the meetings of the Board : you railway-men all appear to have the idea that when this Act is in force it will be about the same as the ordinary regulations that you now have in connection with any Department. For instance, you might say " the unfairness of a Board " and all that sort of thing. The moment this Act is a statutory law it alone governs the whole position. No Manager or Minister for Eailways can administer that Act differently from the provisions laid down in it. You must recognise that?—l do recognise that; but there are considerable powers placed in the hands of the Board ail the same. They appear under subclauses (a), (b), and (c) of clause (4) of section 20 to have power to stop the retiring-allowance or instalments of the same. 27. Only in the terms and in accordance with the Act. I have had a discussion with one or two of the men since. They recognised the material difference. The suggestion that the quorum should be increased to carry out the ordinary law for the purpose of dealing with the case would be impracticable. It might require the Board to meet every morning in the year to carry out the ordinary law. If they had to meet and bring people from one end of the colony to the other the delay would stagnate everything. This is a statute law which no one can allow to be illegally administered. This is a very material point, and my own opinion is that if we were to agree to make he quorum five under this proposed Bill I think we would be doing an immense amount of harm. We would either have to relieve the men from their ordinary positions and pay them to attend that regularly or have the meetings of the members once in every three months. What you suggest is that Division 2 should have more representation?— Yes. 28. The only other point is the thirty-five years as against the forty years. Do you think that should apply to the No. 1 Division ? —Well, I would not like to say that it should not apply to No. 1 Division although the conditions are not the same. A man at inside employment throughout the year is not in the same position as the man at outside employment, who is exposed to all kinds of weather, and has much harder work to perform. 29. In the case of a cleaner, that man takes his retirement at fifty-four years ?—I would go the length of fifty-five years. But I certainly think that forty years is too long in a number of cases. 30. Do you know of any other railway superannuation in any other part of the world where the age is as low as that?—l do not think I do. 31. You are of the opinion that as far as the drivers and shunters and guards are concerned their calling does entail risks ?—Yes. Very often these men are broken down to such an extent that they have to be removed from the footplate and other duties, and a consequent reduction would take place in their wages, which would really affect their retiring-allowance. In a very large number of cases before men arrive at sixty years of age they have to be removed and their wages reduced in consequence. 32. Then, you have read the amended scale ? —Yes, and I am thoroughly in accord with it. 33. And excepting upon the points upon which you have touched you do not object to the Bill. Upon the whole you approve of the Bill ?—Yes. 34. Mr. Pirani.] Mr. Wilson, I understand that this scale we have got in the new Bill is the same as they agreed upon at a conference of the society at Invercargili ?—-Yes. 35. Were any steps taken at Invercargili to appoint delegates to interview the Government in reference to this case ?—Yes. That conference, after deciding on all the proposed alterations they required, and dealing with other conference business, appointed a deputation of four, consisting of Messrs. Warren and O'Keefe (of Auckland), Austin (of Petone), and myself of (Palmerston North), together with the president and general secretary of the society, to deal with the Superannuation Bill, as well as other business. 36. You are aware that the executive of the society have been up here in reference to this scheme?— Yes. I understand that this is the result of an arrangement with the management; that we have been left out, and that they, contrary to the decision of the conference, come and deal with the business themselves. 37. Have the executive any authority from the society to speak on their behalf?— They have this authority : they manage the affairs of the society in the interim. But they should take their instructions from the conference from time to time. In this instance, as a result of the arrangement with the management, they have taken it out of the hands of the delegates appointed. 38. Then, the executive cannot be said to be representing the societies as a whole ?-—You can rest assured that the scale as laid down in the Bill is absolutely the same as agreed to at our last conference.