I.—4a.

18

[HENRY BETTS.

152. Can they be taken to the surface and go out of the mine when they like ?—No ; they are supposed to stop in the mine till the proper hour for leaving off. 153. So that it does not matter whether a man finishes what he considers a satisfactory day's work or not, he has still to stay in the mine till the other men leave ?—Yes. 154. You said, in answer to Mr. Allen, that you thought the English companies get the highest possible price for gold : how do you make that out ?—I believe they ship it direct to the Old Country. 155. Do they not have to pay insurance on it?—Yes, and freight. 156. Do you think that if there were a mint in this colony they would get more for the gold than they do now ?—I have not gone into the question, but am inclined to think the gold would bring more if there was a mint in New Zealand. 157. A foreign country wanting gold from this country would have to pay insurance and freight on the gold, whereas the producer, practically, has to pay the insurance and freight now?— Yes. 158. Is it your opinion that if there was a mint in New Zealand gold would fetch more here ? —Yes ;it would be worth more to the country—no doubt about it. 159. When were the hours of labour last fixed at Reefton by the Arbitration Court ?—About four years ago. 160. Prior to the passing of the Act of last session ?—Yes. 161. So that until there is another award of the Arbitration Court made nobody can alter the hours you are working now, unless they are altered by Parliament or the Arbitration Court ? —Yes, that is so. 162. Hon. Mr. McGowan.] Are there any mines in your district, Mr. Betts, working twentyfour hours a day at ordinary mining-work ?—No; the practice is to work two shifts—the day and afternoon shifts. 163. Is it not a fact that the Act and the amendment are to a certain extent at variance—l mean where the Act defines labour as being from bank to bank, but the miners themselves, under the award, are longer than eight hours below the ground ?—Certainly they are. I believe if the words were struck out that are proposed to be struck out the whole difficulty would be got over. 164. I want to have your opinion on record in regard to this : Supposing the law was strictly carried out of eight hours from bank to bank, do you think that the information given to the shiftboss by the outgoing shift would be quite sufficient for the incoming shift in each case ? —• Certainly. 165. Have you any knowledge of other districts than Reefton in regard to this point ?—I have not a great knowledge; but I have a little in connection with other districts, and I think the same thing would apply. 166. Do you know that it applies to any other districts ? You say that in the Reefton district the shift going off informs the shift-boss of the state of the ground, and he informs the incoming shift: do you know whether that is the case anywhere else than Reefton ?—I could not say for a fact, but I know that is absolutely the case at Reefton. 167. You do not know in regard to any other place?—No. 168. As a miner yourself, would you not prefer to see the mates that you are relieving and know from them the state of the ground? —No. 169. You would rather take it second-hand? —I would rather receive my instructions from the shift-boss. 170. Information is not instructions. You would rather have it from the shift-boss ? —Yes, most decidedly. It is my duty as a miner, according to this Act—the measure you have placed on the statute-book —to report to some one in authority over me. 171. If I were going to follow you as a miner I would rather see you than be told by the shiftboss ? —But would you know that you were going to follow me ? In the Reefton district the men are changed to a large extent. 172. What is the cause of their being changed?—Goodness knows ; Ido not. In the Globe Mine, for instance —the largest we have there—the men are constantly being changed from one face to another. 173. Is the ground rich?—lt varies. In some places the ore is of poor quality; in other places it is of good quality. They work the mines according to how the battery is shaping. Some days they work on poor stone, and in order to keep up their average return they go from the poor stone to the good. And who is going to look after the safety of the men in cases of this kind ? I say that the authority and the onus must be thrown on the owner of the mine and his officers. 174. In your opinion, where a mine is working three shifts under the law of eight hours from bank to bank, the relieving should take place at the surface : is that your opinion ?—Certainly; but it would be worked in another way. The relief could take place underground all the same without any additional time being added to the men's work. 175. Do you think the men working on contract would like the hours shortened? —Most decidedly. It would certainly apply to contractors the same as to wages-men. Contractors have no desire to work long hours, unless it is in the Waihi Mine. 176. Why do they work long hours now if, as you say, contractors prefer to work short ones ? —I do not know that they do. 177. Is it to the advantage of a contractor to have his hours shortened the same as it is to a man who is receiving day-wages ? —Undoubtedly it is to his advantage. lam absolutely certain that contractors should be placed in the same position as wages-men. I do not see why they should be placed in a different position. 178. Was the amendment passed last session operative or inoperative ?—lt was inoperative absolutely in our district.