1.-8,

7

113. Sir Maurice O'Borke.] You yourself had no personal exercise in the supervision ?—lt was taken out of our hands. We had no sessional reader, owing to one not having yet been appointed. During the recess I supervise the principal part of the reading. 114. Mr. Duthie.] Is there no reader ?—There is an extra clerk employed to do the reading during the session. 115. Who is appointed?— Mr. Lowe. 116. Mr. Pirani.] Is there no inconvenience through not having a permanent reader ?—Yes, although at present we have a very good extra clerk to do the work. He, however, cannot be depended upon to attend every session at his present rate of pay, and without fixity of appointment. 117. What does he get ? —lss. per day. 118. The Chairman.] Mr. Otterson, is there a precedent for reports being laid on the table of the House in an incomplete form?— Yes, many. This one was sent off to the Printer in a great hurry, and I do not know how incomplete it was. 119. Mr. Pirani.] Mr. Otterson, should an extract like this one be laid on the table of the House [one produced—extract from Sir W. Buller's speech] ?—Yes, apparently so. But I could not say positively without reading the context. Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones moved: " That Mr. Sheridan, and Mr. J. C. Martin, Chairman of the Commission, be asked to attend before this Committee." Mr. Pirani.] The only objection, we are really very busy, and unless there is something to be gained it seems a shame to waste any more time over this, and it is a matter of great importance, especially to an officer employed in the House, and an answer should be given from the Committee to-day if possible. Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones.] I want to know who is responsible for these papers being handed over to the Minister with all these blanks left in them. Mr. Duthie.] I suppose the Chairman would not know. Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones.] I want to know what passed between the Chairman and the secretary. Sir Maurice O'Borke did not think the evidence showed who was responsible. The officers of the department seemed to have interfered with Mr. Otterson. Mr. Pirani.] It seems to me it was an encroachment made by the Native Department in appointing Mr. Leslie to supervise. Mr. Duthie.] The fault is, Mr. Otterson had no right to recognise instructions from the Native Department. The Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones' amendment was put and lost, Mr. Duthie's motion as afore-mentioned agreed to.

Eeiday, 17th July, 1896. Mr. J. C. Maetin, S.M., examined. 120. The Chairman.] You, I believe, Mr. Martin, were a member of the Horowhenua Commission ?—I was. 121. When did that commission make its report ? —I could not tell from memory. I was in Court till six o'clock last night, when I received your clerk's request, and I have not had time to look up the papers. I think it was about the 26th May. 122. The Commission became functus officio on the report being handed in ?—Yes. 123. Did you see or supervise the printing of the report ?—No ; I have not seen the report or any documents in connection with it after it left my hands. 124. Are you aware whether the evidence was taken in extenso ? —lt was not. 125. In what way was it not done so?— The different persons in asking questions of the witnesses would, as a sort of preface to their questions, or in order to draw the witnesses' attention to the particular matter, read something to the witness. For instance, take Mr. Fraser when cross-examining Mr. Kemp :he said, " You gave evidence. I will read you what you said," &c. 126. As a matter of fact, it would not be taken down; it would be part of the question? —Yes. 127. Would you consider it part of the evidence of the Commission?— Yes, part of it. 128. Are you aware whether that was done ? —I believe there were some few instances where it was not done. 129. Was your authority ever subsequently asked in the way of filling in these blanks ?—No. 130. Was Mr. Leslie connected with the Commission in any way ?—Yes, as secretary and shorthand-writer. 131. Did Mr. Leslie see you on any occasion after the report was handed in?—l believe, three times. Once he came to me with a plan, and I think he had other papers in his hand at the same time. He came to my office and told me the Government Printer wished to know whether he might print all these plans on one sheet of paper. I told Mr. Leslie, " I have nothing to do with the matter ; you can print them on one piece of paper or not, it is a matter of indifference to me. You had better get directions from whoever instructed you." But I said, " Where did you get those plans ? Ido not recognise them." Mr. Leslie said he did not know ; he had simply been asked that question. 132. As to other occasions ?—Mr. Leslie came in on another occasion and said, " I have found out where these plans came from I was speaking to you about the other day." He said they were the plans on the deeds ; and I think that was all that passed on that occasion. 133. Was there a third occasion ? —Yes. Mr. Leslie came to me and said the Speaker and members were being bothered by members who were anxious to get the report from the Printer, and the Printer said it was the plans that were taking the time, and the printing might go in with-